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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Southampton

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I only suggested that about a million years ago! <laugh>
    Would solve our set-piece issue instantly and would give us an actual midfield playmaker.
    He'll probably end up at Anfield, though. And the Southampton fans will like it.
     
    #221
  2. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I've no problem with any of what you say. Romero looks promising but at this point, he's not the centre point of a back 3. He's still learning about the PL and his absence from injury has been less apparent, than Dier's. In a season or two, he'll be a fabulous PL defender but the talent's already obvious.

    I'm yet to be totally convinced by Reguillon. I thought that Sessegnon might have outperformed him by the end of this season but like Lo Celso, his fitness problems are at a point where that seems almost impossible. Reguillon's definitely going to get next season, which puts him aside from the other wing backs. Given that last summer we needed a first team ready player to displace Doherty, Emerson Royal looks a poor purchase. Befre the Brighton game, I was pro-Doherty and think Conte will pick him for the Wolves game.

    Like you, I'd keep Hojbjerg but he'll probably be behind Bentancur and Skipp. Wiksy needs to move on, as does Bergwijn. If we could effectively replace Lucas, that wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.
     
    #222
  3. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    Its been done to death but the issue with Emerson is that he was bought to play RB in a back 4. He was never an offensive fullback. He’s actually decent defensively (last night aside) but doesn’t have the instincts or consistency in the final 3rd to offer a threat. Reggie isn’t elite in that regard either but he’s got more about him in that sense. Not having a serious attacking option down both flanks is a serious issue.
     
    #223
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  4. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    It'll be damning on Conte if Bentancur isn't in the XI on Sunday, that much is for certain.

    I agree that Doherty deserves a start, get Emerson out of the firing line for a bit and go from there.

    Dier's always felt important behind the scenes, even if on the pitch he's had periods of poor form. He's multilingual and seemingly has an adaptive personality to fit in with all types of people. We knew in the early years he was very good friends with Dele but in later seasons it looked like he developed a great friendship with Vertonghen, he's often highly regarded in the England camp when there too.

    It doesn't come as a surprise but I don't wanna see Winks on the pitch again unless we have an injury crisis, year on year he lets us down, has about two half decent games and somehow worms his way back in time and time again, honestly sick of him. I've never been so done with a player as I am him, I hate watching him play football. I didn't mention last night but I ended up being asked by three Southampton fans of how to get to Silver Street station which is on my way home so I walked with them for 5 minutes talking about the game, really sound blokes, they even said they couldn't believe how awful Winks was with one even quipping "what does he do?" which genuinely made me laugh out loud as most of us have been asking that for years... It's damning though that Southampton fans telling are telling a Spurs fan how **** our player is. They also joked about how much they love us for giving them KWP, delighted he's appreciated there, good for him. During a stoppage mid-game in the second half he applauded the East Stand/ South East Corner and got a good response.

    Kulusevski deserves a run as much as anyone for reasons you've already said - no other forward player has earned the right to play alongside Kane and Son. I don't think he needs to shift any timber though, if anything just needs to learn how to utilise his build.
     
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  5. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    Very sad about last night. Not the end of the world because despite that display, we still have a very good chance of getting that 4th PL spot. We just have to learn from this... and my 2p worth says that Doherty will replace Emerson on Sunday, and Dier will come back in as soon as possible to replace Dave (who would have thought we would be missing Dier, but I really think we are). Wolves are quite good at the moment though, and let's hope that means good enough to beat Arse but not us! With my cynical hat on though, I think the hardest thing we have to overcome in that quest is not Arsenal or Wolves or Wet Spam, it's ManU's 12th and 13th man. I really think they are going to get the "benefit of the doubt" a few times before the end of the season, so we'll have to be maximising our points to avoid that working for them. Our 12 March match against them may prove vital - though let's hope the officials are even handed - though there is a catalogue of bad decisions against us at their place.
     
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  6. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I think he's already a top level Prem CB, just needs the right partner and a run of games to prove it. I think for once we've finally bought a player for big money that'll be worth every penny (once we actually pay the option price), though I probably shouldn't say that in fear of jinxing it, RCL may need to have a word with me.

    I like Reguilon, I think offensively he's very good, I mentioned before that only Robertson and Cancelo have more assists than him at LB/ LWB and that shouldn't come as a surprise as they're the two world class players in those positions in the division. Reguilon makes some brilliant runs and his crossing isn't too shabby, I think a CM who can spray meaningful through balls to the wings would see him excel massively but many times he receives the ball he's already being marked as our build up is too slow. Defensively he needs work but then you take the rough with the smooth with attacking FBs/ WBs, Trent can't defend to save his life yet there's not a chance anyone would pick another RB/ RWB over him due to his unreal delivery, with van Dijk and Pool's CMs covering him though it's a system that suits him perfectly as his strengths are played too and weaknesses are covered. We can do similar for Reguilon by getting a midfielder that can find his runs early on. As for Sessegnon, I really want/ wanted him to come good but he's had very, very few good performances when he's been in the side, not sure he can handle the pressure of a big club, injuries of course haven't helped though.

    I thought Bergwijn was going in January and I think he'll go in the summer as Ajax still seem keen (albeit Overmars' departure could change things). Lucas too, if a good offer came in I'd have no problems accepting, although I'd want someone in beforehand, I wouldn't sell him without knowing we already have his replacement, if Bale does return in the summer on a free then it's a no brainer to cash in on the Brazilian. Sanchez, Winks,
     
    #226
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  7. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    For sure with Kulu. I think he’s young and in a new league and less experienced than Bentancur and it shows. As he beds in hopefully he becomes more physically confident.

    Ok, Winks. Hear me out (lol).

    What is he good at? I think we saw some of it when he played as a 6 with Højbjerg and Skipp ahead of him. He circulates the ball well, gets it off the CBs to progress, and can play those passes over the top. He’s not elite obviously at any of those but that’s what he does.

    He is absolutely, singularly unsuited to doing the job we asked of him and Højbjerg last night. He’s not press resistant. He doesn’t move the ball quickly forward, he prefers to lay it off, move into space and then hit the forward pass, which he never had the chance to do last night. Southampton pressed too well and with Lucas and Son often dropping deep out of possession to support an outnumbered midfield, and Southampton’s fullbacks pinning Reggie and Emerson back, he just didn’t have an outball. Nobody did. He occasionally plays the ball first time round the corner or spins his man to carry it forward a bit, but a) he doesn’t do this often enough for it to be a convincing feature of his game and b) when the press is good and there’s limited movement ahead of him, what’s the point. Off the ball he’s a willing runner but doesn’t have defensive positioning nous and isn’t a physical player.

    Winks is a limited player who has his uses in some circumstances, but he’s not good enough to justify setting up the team around him. Setting up a midfield with him and Højbjerg last night was asking for it. We should sell and look to invest in a better all-round player who can contribute in more circumstances in a game.

    I’m also concerned about Højbjerg, on another note. Far from the worst player in the squad and clearly a smashing lad and hard worker, but he hasn’t improved since arriving and I was hoping he would have. Again, it’s a bit about how we use him, but I’d like to see aspects of his game improved as well, and I haven’t seen that happening.
     
    #227
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  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I think you're really scraping the barrel and some there to be honest.

    Circulating possession is a similar term to recycling possession which was something people were saying about two years ago. If this is the best thing a player can do then it's damning of the quality of the player. 95% of non-defensive central midfielders in the Premier League can recycle possession, it's an expectancy not a unique trait. As for passes over the top... overstated, he does it about once or twice per game and that's assuming it's an accurate one. We're talking about a player who'd just about make Newcastle and Norwich's XIs and yet somehow he's scraped what will be 6 years in our first team squad, featuring far too regularly in a couple of years. Winks has been one of the very early reasons why this club has suffered a sharp decline over the last 3 or so years and such has been the poor decisions of the club we've managed to have about half a squad who are now of similar quality to him, it's why we embarrassed ourselves in the Conference League this season and often struggled when trying to rotate from our first XI, which itself isn't perfect.

    There are teams smaller than us with far, far better midfielders than him who can do what he does and so much more: Ward-Prowse literally showed it last night, Tielemans, Rice, Bissouma, Neves, Moutinho, Jacob Ramsey, Phillips, Newcastle's new lad also sounds like a real player... These walk into our XI over Winks. Aside from it being infuriating, I find it embarrassing for us too.

    I do agree on Hojbjerg, in a dreadful run of form, I wish Conte had the balls to drop him (and Winks) for White and Bentancur on Sunday but it's not happening. If I'm Harvey White though I'm probably asking for a move at the end of the season unless my situation changes, another promising young player that's going to waste here, why we blocked his loan move with seemingly little intent to play him I have no idea.
     
    #228
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  9. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Re Reguilón... one of his jobs as a wing back is to deliver effective balls into the box.

    He has played 46 premier league games and has 6 assists and 1 goal.

    This season he has created 3 goals making him joint 24th.

    He has won 33 tackles making him 63rd in the league behind Sanchez and Royal
    (who are both poor imho).

    He has produced 68 crosses making him 30th in the league.

    I ain't saying he's **** but I am saying it ain't that impressive.

    But he is by no means the problem. I just won't be gutted if Real buy him back.

    Our problems are all over tbh.

    Kane has 5 goals (joint 31st highest) from 63 shots (3rd highest) whereas Son has 9 goals (3rd highest) from 45 shots (16th highest).
    That's an issue that we haven't overcome. That's not a dig at kane but he is missing chances that he didn't used to. Missed a glorious opportunity last night iirc.

    We've score 10 goals less than last season and conceded 3 more.

    That's to do with creativity AND no control in midfield.

    The club have started to improve.

    Getting Lo Celso, Ndombele and Dele out for no money other than saving their wages is a huge change of direction.

    Unfortunately, we still have others that need to go such as Rodon, Winks, Sanchez, Bergwijn, Gollini, Doherty and Tanganga. Personally I would add Royal, Sessegnon and Gil* to the list.

    When you add in Ndombele and Lo Celso that is 9 without Royal, Sessegnon and Gil
    which will be very difficult to sell and replace in one or even two windows.

    *Gil doesn't seem suited but his chances have been very very limited but he failed to impress in the ECL...so I can see the sense in keeping him.

    I'm quite optimistic cos I think we'll be forced to give some of our under 23s opportunities which I think could build some kind of team spirit...some thing we have lack consistently for 3 years or so.
     
    #229
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  10. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    In terms of the stats you've posted, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're comparing him with all players in the Premier League. So he's joint 24th for assists but that includes players like de Bruyne/ Fernandes/ Pogba/ Salah and all the CMs/ wingers? If so, being 24th would actually be extremely good for a FB when you consider there's about 10-15 good attacking midfielders, about 40 wingers and another 40 FBs. It would signify he's ahead of most FBs and a large number of wingers too. I know that from LB alone he's only been bettered for assists by Robertson and Cancelo... which is hardly a surprise. So I think saying his stats aren't impressive are actually incorrect.

    In terms of your other analysis, I'd agree with everything you've said bar Gil. I think people have judged Gil far too harshly. He was never signed to essentially be a first XI player from the off and we've criminally misused him for the most part too by sticking him on the right where he's completely ineffective, it's similar to when 'Arry once tried playing Lennon on the left for a spell, it just didn't work, Lennon was a natural RW and a brilliant one too, just like Gil is a natural LW. From memory, the rare times he's played on the left he got an assist against Pacos and changed the game vs Arsenal despite still losing. He's played twice for Valencia so far too, both at LW and they're already in love with him. He's brought comparisons to Pablo Aimar and David Silva in just two games with them, he's a phenomenal talent that needs to be nurtured and utilised correctly.
     
    #230
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  11. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Fair point re the stats for Reguilón.
    In his defence I suspect a fully firing Son, Kane and Moura could have pushed his assist stats up.

    However his crosses seem as hit and miss and Emerson Royal's.

    The issue of him winning so few tackles is accurate in my opinion when you consider that Sanchez and Royal have both completed more successful tackle than him.

    Maybe I miss it but I am not overly impressed, a bit like with Hoejberg.

    I wouldn't want us to sell them as we'd create unnecessary transfer work but if very good offers came in I wouldn't be gutted.

    I also agree that Gil has not had a true opportunity and does suffer from being played out of position.

    All told re this season I think our fans are over hopeful cos outside of the top 2 or 3 the league is pretty poor ... that's the only reason 4th is near.

    We are improving but are an average team with an unbalanced squad.
    Any other season 4th would be gone and we'd be hoping for a great cup run and a top 6 finish.

    That's kind of my hope.

    I think that conte is very wedded to his system and will stick to it so more performances like last night and the Brighton fa cup game will happen.

    Either the club will buy and dump who he wants in the summer or he'll walk. This window just gone makes me hopeful he'll be backed.
     
    #231
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  12. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    We often have nobody in the box to aim for.
    Moura and Son get dragged wide, Kane drops deep and no midfielders push up past them.
     
    #232
  13. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Another fair point <ok>
     
    #233
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  14. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I'd agree that defensively Reguilon needs to improve but equally with FBs nowadays it feels like you need to take the rough with the smooth.

    For instance Ben Davies at LB - can't attack for ****, but very good defender.
    Reguilon at LB - very good going forward but can't defend.
    Emerson at RB - solid defensive stats, woeful attacking ones.

    It's probably similar across the board for other FBs too. Reece James is probably one of the rare exceptions as I think he's brilliant at both. Even Trent, who I'd say is the best RB in Europe, is very suspect defensively but his deliveries are Beckham-esque and there's not a chance you'd want him to take a more defensive stance.

    In terms of Reguilon's crossing, I'd say that he's actually very good at them but seeing as he's only 30th for crosses delivered, it signifies he probably needs to make more. I think that can be improved with a creative CM who can find his runs, imagine a Modric or Eriksen getting the ball and knocking it wide for Reguilon to run on to, he'd probably double or triple his assist output. So far, so many times he receives the ball it's often too late and the likes of Kane/ Son/ Lucas are already being marked by 6 foot lumps ready to deal with a cross.

    Hojbjerg's in a dreadful run of form, needs dropping, there's no denying that. Like I said earlier I wish Conte would take the bold move of going with Bentancur and White for Sunday but it ain't happening.

    I'd be open to offers for every single player bar Lloris, Romero, Skipp, Kane and Son (plus the two new boys obviously, I'd add Gil as well as he's a project). There are players like Dier, Reguilon and Davies who I'd prefer not to sell but if an offer too good to refuse came in I'd take it.

    I'm optimistic for a top six finish but it depends on Kane and Son's fitness, if they get any significant injuries I think we're up **** creek.

    As for the summer, yeah, back Conte or he's gone, simple as that. Club has nowhere to hide now, this is last chance saloon for the hierarchy.
     
    #234
  15. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    I agree. Hes not just a tackler, hes got s greater burst and can dribble past a player. Great box to box player. Where i would say he falters is technically i think hes a bit ropey. Similar to ramires, hes brilliant at running, reads the player well and his passing is not bad IF given time.

    Ask him to hold a man off (when receiving the ball), awareness of players to turn in a right spot (like eriksen), play a fantastic first time pass (the pass or the vision to see this) and to play in tight spaces and i think hes pretty average. His shooting is hit or miss from range (admittedly scored a few screamers) and if you had to place a tag on him i would say he isnt very creative which is why we struggle to break teams down (as a collective and personnel) when they sit deep and dont attack.

    Still i wouldnt change him for anyone in the world and he fits our team brilliantly as well as being a gent.
     
    #235
  16. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    He also had plenty of success with us at chelsea in his 343
    I think i mentioned before conte is wedded to his system. When it works its beautiful, when it doesnt its frustrating. We had 343 pretty much the whole time (after he tried 433).

    I dont know if he changed things up at inter or rigidly stuck with 352 when he hit it but whatever he does, hes been a success everywhere he goes.

    I dont remember us every dominating a game possession wise ala pep but more we were impregnable without the ball and deadly on the counter.
     
    #236
  17. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    I don’t disagree with you about Winks. From the way we’re looking to play he’s a squad option at best in a 352 and absolutely not an option for 343. For a regular starter we should be looking for a much better player. Thankfully I think Bentancur is going to be really good, but we clearly need to recruit more at CM because there are too many other middling options too.
     
    #237
  18. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

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    Doubt you could afford him tbh.

    English tax + best set piece taker in the league = only going to a big club
     
    #238
  19. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Think his age is against him getting a move to a City, United, Liverpool or Chelsea tbh.
    Think he is 28 this year.
    Unusual for them to spend big on players his age unless they are considered world class.
    I think it's good you've kept hold of him...helps makes the league competitive but if toon stay up can see them throwing around money like confetti on very good but not top class players like City did 2008-2010ish.
     
    #239
  20. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image
     
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