The Autosport poll you speak of has Moss at number 8 - does that make him an all-time great? From what little I know of him, he's an exceptional talent, but I wouldn't consider him a true all-time great.
Which brings me back to Can anyone answer that? An answer from Martial as he started teh thread would also be good as I'd like to know what makes a great, in his opinion. After all, these are all about people's opinions.
probally a mix of alot of things would gain an all time great his stripes , consistency , relatively error free drives , blinding speed , unmatched car control , mechanical sympathy , tyre sympathy , and probally as important as anything else , razor sharp intelligence in the car , very likely razor sharp intelligence out of the car is a major plus as well -- dont think i have left anything out --
but how do you measure those objectives into a format where it can be seen that one, or a number, of drivers match said criteria?
not denying that hill and moss were exceptional , i cant pass judgement on either of them as i never saw them , what we do know is clark had hills number in equal equipment and fangio was seemingly better than moss in similar machinery -- that would probally go some way in explaining why the historians dont rate hill in the elite group of all time greats -- as i said moss may have been the exception --
you cant measure anything from behind a television screen or a catch fence at a race track , however you have been watching F1 as long as i have -- can you also not see when a driver has a little something or a few little somethings that the others dont have ?
youve given in hill now then? One question, maybe ive missed it but are you English and who do you consider is the best nation for drivers?
i have never denyied that hill and moss were anything but exceptional drivers , what makes you think i said anything different , no i am not english so i dont have any patriotic english axe to grind - and in fairness probally england more than any other nation has had more high calibre F1 drivers than any other nation , but in my opinion with the possible exception of moss has never produced an all time great --
Wasn't necessarily a question for you just to answer, didn;t mean to put you on the spot as such.. Was more of a subjective thought out loud about how we would quantify such things.
Aah feverill - creative as ever… I'm sure you're right; we all have them (opinions or their equivalent). No doubt your equivalent prompted your question?
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In that case I suggest you don't waste 30 minutes of your life checking the Autosport rankings to see which driver the voting public thinks is the most over-rated. The second most over-rated is the driver's No.1, which only 22% of people agree with. From the English perspective the public think the most under-rated is Graham Hill: 86% think he should be higher than 21st. Why has Japan produced no-one rated above 63rd?
for us non racing types its hard to put into words and keep it short because so many things make up the complete package of an all time great , obviously the experts could phrase it better ,but i think we all realise when we are seeing something special , consistency of performance across all the normal skill parameters is important ,any really special driver will allways have a little more in his locker in this respect than the others in his era , probally any dip in form will raise questions , for me it has allways been about needle sharp intelligence and tactical awareness in the car and the ability to consistently pull a performance from a uncompetitive car that has made a driver stand out for me -- having a ruthless uncompromising streak has allways been a very useful weapon in a drivers make up on a number of levels - what can i say -- i think we are all savvy enough to know it when we see it --
