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General Sports Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by The Ides of March, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    He did that anyway. A red flag would have been less controversial. He could say he believed it was justified and no one could argue.
     
    #6821
  2. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly my point though. He would have been making a judgement call that isn't correct in the context of the rules in order to set up a more palatable ending. And I 100% agree that it would have been a better ending!

    But of the four possible ways this could have ended (and I'm assuming here that he couldn't have acted earlier to wave through all the lapped traffic, though it really seemed like he could, but hesitated) that's the one least supported by the rules as written.
     
    #6822
  3. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    The end result, for me, is that Masi’s decisions gifted the win to Verstappen.
    New soft tyres against old hard tyres were a known factor when he made those decisions and changing his decision from not unlapping to unlapping stopped the last lap from being a race and turned it into a formality.
    At least if Verstappen had had to come from further back, past the lapped drivers who would have moved aside for him, there might have been an element of a racing end.
    Hamilton’s behaviour has been impeccable, although a radio comment made, but not broadcast to the world at the time, has revealed him saying that the “result had been manipulated”, and he was right.
    The person being most hurt, by this, is Verstappen. Yes he is World champion and yes he has had a great season and is a great driver, but he will know that he didn’t deserve to win Sunday’s race.
     
    #6823
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  4. Romsey_Saint

    Romsey_Saint Well-Known Member

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    If Masi had simply followed the rules there would be no taint on the outcome. This would also have resulted in a fair and equitable outcome. The driver comfortably winning the race would have led the cars, that would have unlapped on Lap 58 across the finish line. Period. Those were the ****ing rules!! It is that black and white. All this bullshit about red flagging, whatever, is all smoke and mirrors.

    Yes, disappointing for the fans to see it finish that way, but this outcome is far less than dire situation the FIA and its sport now finds itself in.
     
    #6824
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  5. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    Again, though, part of the issue is that it almost definitely wouldn't have been necessary for the final lap to be consumed by the farce of the cars unlapping themselves if the call to unlap the cars had come earlier. Masi reacted slowly because, as race director, he's expected to coordinate the cleanup, the safety car, the provisions for directing traffic on the course, and also play therapist for all of the team bosses at the same time. Having created the situation, he then made a (questionable) judgement call to minimize the effect that he had on the situation.

    Also, all this bit about a "fair and equitable outcome" is based on everything that happened before the safety car. Racing doesn't work that way, never has. Irrespective of the previous 53 laps, the proper outcome as soon as Latifi hits the wall is for the race to restart with Verstappen directly behind Hamilton, because that's how safety cars work. Racing has always included an awful lot of randomness.
     
    #6825
  6. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal.

     
    #6826
  7. Romsey_Saint

    Romsey_Saint Well-Known Member

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    Very sad to read that RB are going to get away with stealing the drivers championship title. Mercedes has acted in the best interests of the sport, and their behaviour is so much better than the crowing from Horner and Marko - the latter suggesting RB would leave F1 if the decision was reversed was so pathetic.
     
    #6827
  8. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    They didn't really steal it, they just took advantage of a huge slice of luck and a debatable decision.
     
    #6828
  9. Romsey_Saint

    Romsey_Saint Well-Known Member

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    Let's agree to disagree.
     
    #6829
  10. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    Gosh if anyone should have been threatened to leave F1 then is should have been Mercedes

    Kind of disappointed it didn’t shake out in such as way as to see if anyone would call RBs bluff on that
     
    #6830
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  11. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Max has shown himself to be a great driver, at the highest level, but he needs to win another world title to back up how good he is.
    If this were to be his only world title (unlikely as even if he left RB he would probably only go to Mercedes, unless a better car comes along) it would always carry the stigma of having been gifted to him, wrapped up in pretty paper, complete with ribbons and bows, courtesy of Masi.
     
    #6831
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  12. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    #6832
  13. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't surprise me, and you could completely pick that up from his interview post-race.

    I think and VERY much hope he does get his head straight on it, and comes back strong next season. I think that as a racer, as Toto says, he will, particularly with the new regulations coming into play. It'll be a very tempting challenge. The FIA need to come out with a proper appraisal of what is what moving forwards though.
     
    #6833
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  14. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    I agree, I think when the dust has settled and it's not as raw Lewis will realise he isn't done racing in F1. It would be gutting to miss out on 2 more seasons (at least) of Lewis v Max. Even at 36, he's as good as he ever has been. I think it's fair to say it took 2 special drivers to make this season as good as it has been. Max has probably had the best car over most of the season (I think Lewis had it from Brazil onwards with the engine upgrade). But I look at the differences between teammates and although Bottas outscored Perez I think Perez has been the better driver. Also Bottas has been in a Mercedes for a long time and has never come close to Hamilton.

    It's totally understandable why he's feeling so flat right now but I think he'd deeply regret retiring in a few months time if he did so now.
     
    #6834
  15. Romsey_Saint

    Romsey_Saint Well-Known Member

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    As someone who has followed F1 closely since early 70's l am very sceptical that FIA can keep its house in order, based on its murky past. This has been offered up as a sweetener to all the teams who are seriously pissed with how FIA managed the AD GP (because let's not forget its the whole paddock that does not understand what happened that afternoon. Some maybe sympathetic to RB or to Mercedes, but nobody now understands how rules will be managed going forwards).
     
    #6835
  16. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, Romsey. We're not quite in the realms of Jean-Marie Balestre et al. I think they realise they've dropped a boob here, as the public reaction has been bad to it (and they'll care about that even more than they care about the teams). They're not daft. There'll be concessions and a clear stipulation of what happens in certain situations off the back of this.
     
    #6836
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  17. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, just removing the team principals from the ear of the race director will make a difference. There was, going by the timing board, enough time in order for the normal procedures to be followed, which would have been crash -> SC -> pit lane opens and cars pit -> traffic unlaps -> race restarts with grid in order, for at least one lap of racing. But Masi dithered initially, and I can't help but think having to try to fulfill has actual duties while also being bombarded with phone calls was a contributing factor. And having likely impacted the ending of the race by dithering, Masi then panicked a bit and made a decision to undo the effects of his initial dithering.
     
    #6837
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  18. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like one of those rules that should always have been in place
     
    #6838
  19. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I don't remember it being as much of an issue in years past, but it's a silly thing to have existed in the first place. Just create a procedure by which the likes of Wolff and Horner can lodge protests that doesn't involve them yelling incoherently at the guy who is literally in charge of everything happening in real-time.
     
    #6839
  20. Romsey_Saint

    Romsey_Saint Well-Known Member

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    It was never a problem in the past because Charlie Whiting, firstly, had the absolute respect of the whole paddock and secondly; woe betide any team manager who tried to bully him!

    Finally, Charlie also wrote most of the rules, or at the very least was a party to their scripting, he knew how they were to be played out. So when Charlie spoke, all listened.

    Masi acted like a fish out of water and has been found out. I have no sympathy for the situation he created for himself. He no longer has any credibility in the Paddock and l think he should consider his position.
     
    #6840

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