Game Over For Ole

This is what drove GF off the forum. This type of thinking.

Of course players bare there own responsibility. And when they do, the manager must act decisively. But when a team consistently underperforms, it turns to manager problem. Operative word here is “consistently”.

If the players are the ones at fault for this consistent horrible shtshow, why is Ole leaving talents on the bench while persisting with those that do not give a rat’s a**? I’ll tell you why! Because the man has no plan for the team to execute against. If he did, he would know to shove out those that are not giving him 100%.

No yes, at this juncture, and I’ll say it again, buck ends with the man that puts out the team.

 

I have said it many times as others have too. The manager bears the ultimate responsibility and he is the one whose neck is on the line when player X doesn’t close down or player Y doesn’t bother covering in midfield or player Z doesn’t run to press. No one said Ole is brilliant and the players are completely at fault. All some of us are and have been saying is that the players bear some responsibility for that sudden downturn in result. We’ll never know the true situation but it already looks that some players are not giving 100% either through doubting his tactics or some other reason. FFS I can’t see why it’s so difficult to grasp. Ole is at fault but he’s not the only one responsible for that ****show as you put it.

 

And BTW a type of thinking doesn’t drive an individual off the forum

 

It clearly drove off GF. lol. He’s probably spending more time by the boat these days.

The term “some” is useless! I don’t believe those players step onto the pitch to preemptively down the tools. I don’t believe that for one second. They are more lost due to lack of direction. And without a sense of direction, the performances suffer.
It is the manager’s responsibility to ensure that they keep knows where he stands and what he expects from every member of the team. We currently have none of those attributes.

I would therefore conclude that it is Ole who has downed the tools because he has no new ideas of his own on what else to try. He’s completely exhausted all his options and consequently the players have lost faith in him as a leader.

 

It's chicken and egg isn't it?

What comes first, coaching/management ineptitude or players lacking efforts?

In this case, it's clearly the former that has led to the latter.

A few of us have been saying this for longer than a few others, but eventually everyone kind of got in line with it as the penny dropped.

Bar GF, who blindly supported Ole and blamed the players 100% regardless, while strangely continually referencing poor results or struggles of other clubs to somehow justify ours.

Bottom line is this; when it reaches this stage, it is always the manager who is held culpable. Always. That's why managers are sacked and players are not.

In this case, it is with absolute justification.

It's harsh to say sacked. That's not really fair, sacked means misdemeanor of some sort, or gross misconduct, and he's not done any of that. He's just reached the end of the road and can't go higher.

It wasn't Leicester for me, it was Villarreal in the EL final.

 

I think that is where we differ. The players are not the angels some of us portray them to be nor their behaviour solely the product of poor coaching. Some of their poor attitude have nothing to do with training or lack of. They are highly paid professionals not junior apprentices who can lay 100% of the blame on their supervisors . The players themselves said umpteen times that they had to take responsibility for the poor performances and did better. I think they were telling it as it is and not protecting the manager. They know themselves some of them are playing well below par and only giving 50% or less.

The surrender (the only appropriate word IMO)against the RS and City was not normal in my many decades of watching this team.

And of course players are not sacked. They are sold at the earliest opportunity or play with the reserves.

 

And for something different: the beginning of a great relationship?

please log in to view this image

 

Two things;

Who said the players were angels, ever?

You said yourself it's not black and white, and on the very same day go down the black and white route.

Secondly, it wasn't just poor performances by players. There was clearly a piss poor team selection and game plan, that led to the poor performances by players.

If they don't know what the **** they are supposed to be doing, how are they expected to play at the top of their game?




And I can only reference, again, the selection of Fred and McTominay week after week ahead of £100 million worth of newly bought and untried players in Sancho and van De Beek. = ****e management.

 

I am not sure what we are arguing about then. I said it wasn’t black and white. Meaning that it was a grey area and a shared responsibility. It was Cytrax who picked on the things Diego and I were discussing in terms of player responsibility. Well, I am glad that we accept that the players have to take some responsibility for the mess. We (certainly not I) never said it was solely the players. Just that it wasn’t solely the manager and coaching staff either. The manager doesn’t tell them not to run, not to compete, not to give 100% especially when playing against local rivals.

If we are all saying the same thing (coming from different directions) all well and good .

 

When it comes to player performance and effort it comes down to whether you believe it's down to

this...

or this...

My opinion is that this hasn't just happened all of a sudden. It's been a gradual process over the past 18 months. The team system, the team selection, the tactics were always poor. We managed to get results by individual moments of brilliance getting goals when we needed them.

That was all fine and well for a while, but as we headed towards the end of the season the over reliance on those individual moments (despite our tactics NOT because of them) soon dried out. Continuing into this season, that drought (except for Ronaldo) has got worse.

Problem is that when those individual moments don't happen, the lack of tactics, systems, coaching ALL become acutely profound. If you're a player who's gone through that whole process, especially if you've given your all, just how disillusioned are you going to be?

 

So i hear trent may have some competition from sancho soon

 

Serious question for everyone, does anyone see a single leader in the squad?
I could not pick a captain out of the lot of them that i would class as a man to lead, Fergie (yes i know he's gone) had a team full of leaders, ****s being thrown out all over the field when players weren't performing and can imagine (obviously no first hand knowledge ) that much pointing and truths were dished out at half time if things needed sorting.

 

No chance mate, Sancho can read a game and actually defend when needed.

 

So youre saying awb is that dogshit a forward is better than him in his natural position.

Ta mate

 

No mate, i'm saying a forward is better than Trent at defending by far

I gave your boy big credits on your board by saying he is probably the best crosser of the ball from anywhere on the right since Beckham, your lot took it as an insult

That has gone this season though since he has decided to move inside and ball watch.

 

At the risk of asking this, isn't a leader an extension of what the manager wants on the pitch

To answer the question, no there aren't. I saw Bruno giving out **** to players against Spurs. I've seen him do it before but not nearly enough.

TBH I think the natural position is either the CB but MORE preferably for me, it's the CM position. Which is why when we bring in Declan Rice he'll be the perfect leader and hopefully others will follow up and become so too

 

Winks is a leader with us, bro.

Wouldn't begrudge him a move to you lot... he'd be cheaper than Rice, no brainer in it?

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Obvioulsy.

 

All seriousness as an outsider looking in, Ole is so out of his depth it's funny (from a rival fan perspective) but also painful seeing him botch up what is generally a very good squad of players barring one or two.

Whilst it needed **** to hit the fan big time, you lot done us a massive favour spanking us at WHL because that forced the hierarchy to act and stump up the cash for Conte. Honestly, the renewed optimism for us fans since his appointment has been crazy. He's only managed two games but there's already been improvements and he's probably the most popular bloke at the club already, such is the **** show we've been watching for 3 years now.

I think if Utd sort out the manager situation there's zero reason you lot can't get back to winning things again... So naturally I hope you keep him and let this talented squad pass you by.

 

“The manager doesn’t tell them not to run, not to compete, not to give 100% especially when playing against local rivals .”

Christian’s position on this argument is simply flat out wrong.

His position is analogous to sending great soldiers to war without adequate plan and drills imposed by the Generals to execute against, yet expecting the great soldiers to somehow use their shooting skills to win the war. It’s a silly idea!