It all really is disgusting and shameful. Im not the most patriotic person to be honest but those that are must really be disgusted with whats happening nowadays.
Sir Geoffrey Cox Doncha just luv him! Nicks a million by defending people his own government is prosecuting and does it from his office in Parliament, when he’s not on the beach exploiting pandemic rules or failing to vote 29 times out of 30 in Parliamentary divisions! What a role model to all avaricious little twats! Probably hasn’t broken any rules though, and unless he is convicted in a criminal court his behaviour should not only be tolerated but actively praised as the sort of go getting entrepreneurial spirit that personifies the new sunlit uplands Britain. Exploiting two sets of taxpayers at the same time! Outstanding! And what a lovely voice he has. He’s going to need it.
I know @sb_73 is not a fan of Danny Finkelstein, but his Times column from yesterday is still very much worth sharing. A zinger. --- Tories must decide if they care about reality A moral error was made with Paterson but it is not too late to avoid a similar fiasco with the Northern Ireland protocol Not long after I started working for John Major in 1995, we had a strategy meeting at Chequers to discuss how we might fight the forthcoming election. An election that was already looking — how best to put this — difficult. In a private moment in the garden between sessions, I shared with him my view that our best hope was for him to be as authentic as possible, as “John Major” as he could be. Even if it didn’t work, and it was very likely that nothing would work, he would at least find it personally satisfying. He replied that he agreed but expressed his intense frustration about how boxed in by the right he felt he was. When I listened to my former boss on the radio on Saturday, expressing his anger at various aspects of government conduct, I realised I was listening to the release of the tension he had felt throughout his last years in power. And I enjoyed hearing him be himself. I also thought that, on the two issues he concentrated upon, he was undoubtedly right. The first, the Owen Paterson fiasco, concerned a moral and political error the government has already made. The other concerned a moral and political error it may be about to make. So let’s focus on that. The government is engaged in a dispute with the European Union about the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol, the special arrangements designed to prevent Brexit creating a hard border in Ireland. Despite the offer of substantial concessions, the prime minister and his negotiator Lord Frost are considering “triggering Article 16”, in other words unilaterally suspending large parts of the protocol. Of this potential manoeuvre Sir John said “I think it would be colossally stupid” and added that it would be “unconservative”. I agree that it would be both. I think before Conservative MPs and ministers allow Lord Frost to suspend the deal that Lord Frost negotiated, they ought to ask themselves three questions. The first is this: do you care about reality? If this country insists upon having its own regulatory system and trade policy, entirely independent of the one adopted by its neighbours, then this has obvious consequences. Somewhere between our regulatory zone and Europe’s there will be a border. Indeed the desire to have a border is a central point of Brexit, since you can’t both take control of your border and not have one at the same time. Indeed, when some of us did try to suggest adopting common policies with the EU that would soften the border or even eliminate the need for one, we were told this wasn’t really Brexit. “Brino” it was dubbed. Brexit in name only. The advocates of having a border won the day, with the only question being where this border should be. Between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or between Northern Ireland and the Republic? One of these puts a border between parts of the United Kingdom, the other separates parts of Ireland, in breach of the spirit of the Good Friday agreement. Yet aside from absurd suggestions — the Republic should also leave the single market — this simple choice is all that remains. And to pretend it doesn’t is a flight from reality. Gavin Barwell, Theresa May’s former chief of staff, explains in his excellent recent volume of memoirs that he could never get the critics to grapple with the border question and it seems this problem remains. To trigger Article 16 while still supporting the Good Friday agreement is to reject both available options. It is to campaign under the slogan “Reality? No thank you!” And this is indeed, as Sir John says, unconservative. There is a parallel here with the Paterson affair. A group of very self-confident people managed to persuade the rest of the party to act as if Paterson had not done what he absolutely had done. Everyone was persuaded to treat the most ludicrous “dog ate my homework” defence as if the accused was Dreyfus. It is an object lesson in the deleterious consequences of ignoring reality. The second question Conservative MPs must ask themselves is: do you care about your election promises? The government won the election offering to “get Brexit done”. It agreed a deal that included the Northern Ireland protocol and said it would pass this deal and implement its provisions. The reason why the prime minister agreed to the protocol is that he thought he would be much stronger fighting an election with a withdrawal agreement than offering a no-deal Brexit. And he was correct. Doing that deal was central to the result. It is not just that there were some Conservative-inclined Remainers who would not have voted for a no-deal party. That might have been a relatively small group. It is that large numbers of voters wanted to get the whole thing over with, tie up the loose ends, get on with life. It is these people who will feel bemused and perhaps betrayed if the whole saga begins again. As it might well if we trigger Article 16. MPs should certainly consider whether they wish to explain to their constituents that the promise to get Brexit done came with an asterisk and small print about not having really meant all the stuff about Northern Ireland. And then there is the third question. Do you care about treaties and Britain’s word? The government has argued that the Northern Ireland protocol has had unexpected consequences. That is flatly not true. That it involved a border in the Irish Sea and regulatory obstacles for Northern Ireland was entirely obvious when it was signed. Indeed it was the subject of extensive public debate. And it wasn’t a minor detail, either. You might even say that Theresa May sacrificed her premiership because she saw what such a protocol would mean and didn’t want it. We agreed to something knowing the consequences and gave our word that we had a deal. If the Conservative Party no longer thinks our international agreements matter or that our word as a country is important then, really, what is it? What has it become? And even those MPs who don’t regard the whole thing as a matter of honour might reflect on the practical consequences. A country that loses a reputation for honest dealing has to pay an economic premium to get people to trade with it and a diplomatic cost when striking international agreements. Sometimes in politics disasters come upon you too late to deal with them properly. They are upon you before you have given them much thought. This isn’t the case with Article 16. Conservative MPs still have time, they can still put pressure on the government. They should tell their whips that asking them to vote for one fiasco is enough for now. Lord Frost should take the EU offer on the table and not expect them to back another.
Actually, I'm sick of the powerful Stonewall (and others) lobby trying to hijack everything in their own interests. The poppy represents all those who gave their life for their country in war, irrespective of sexual orientation. This one day is not all about LGBT stuff, with which we get soaked for the other 364.
Yeah, Danny’s very much a 90s man isn’t he? Catch up with the zeitgeist mate, your Tory party is long dead. Indeed, it was the architect of its own demise. And it seems the English electorate prefers this version. In my own defence, I don’t think much of any pundit who generates opinions for money to a deadline.
So you’ve fallen for it as well. This is a fake story that has been posted for the last three years, has nothing to do with Stonewall or any other LGBTQ affiliated group, I’ve not seen any group or person from the community support this. Just somebody, a single person on eBay trying to make a quick buck. This is the problem, people are so quick to get outraged and think the worst when anything potentially damaging is mooted about anything LGBTQ related. So there’s no need to be sick, you’ve been suckered in, maybe your feeling of sickness can be redirected at the people so quick to attack LGBTQ groups and sharing damaging false stories
I get slightly irked by any poppy which isn't the plain old fashioned paper poppy. Metal poppies, rainbow poppies, poppies with football crests attached, gold poppies, big poppies, so on. Why? Well, for me at least the uniformity and the simplicity of the poppy represents something very important about what we remember - we remember that people from all sorts of different walks of life were ultimately unified in giving sacrifice of their lives for others. They more often than not had nothing but a simple grave in a field in France. So it's right to remember them by all sharing a unified, simple symbol. The appropriation of that symbol by all sorts of organisations shouldn't be allowed.
Having done a bit of research, it seems no one is quite sure whether it's genuine or not. But my question to you is - why post it? Why proliferate it? If it is false, let it die a death rather than start trying to trip people up over it. You seem to get enjoyment about winding people up over it PS my comment on the ever powerful LGBTQ lobby and Stonewall stands
I'd read this. It's very much the Major/May approach. There is no perfect solution to Northern Ireland issue caused by Brexit. Everyone knows that. So there needs to be a compromise, a classic EU fudge, where both sides have to be more relaxed and trusting of each other's product quality and standards. Adopting that approach, there could still be a role for the ECJ, probably narrower than it is now. Comments about going to war, as made by an EU official this week, are simply unhelpful.
I quote my initial post. Just seen this posted on faceache… it’s as though people love to be lied to. the point of the post being that people will continuously post out lies to try and undermine LGBQ groups. In this case something rightfully very emotive. Rather than being sickened by those using poppies as part of their agenda, showing no respect to the British Legion or the poppy appeal, you double down and criticise me for posting it and have a go at LQBTQ groups again!
The key bit is the role for the ECJ. If Boris is willing to admit this, like you, them we could reach a compromise.
I see now it's an old issue - three years old - and you've raised it with an oblique reference. Absolutely pointless.
It’s not an old issue, this fake news story has been posted all over social media over the last few weeks so it’s current.. it has been the same for the last few years around this time, despite it being debunked every year. The point being is this is just an example of many fake stories put out there to get people outraged at LGBTQ groups and the community. This one particularly upsetting as it sinks so low as to use false information about the poppy appeal. Your responses have surprised me a little I’d have thought you’d have been disgusted at those showing absolutely no respect to something you’re passionate about, like you showed your initial disgust at the LGBTQ groups when you thought it genuine. Yet you just doubled down on Stonewall and other LGBTQ groups who had nothing to do with this blatant disrespect and then just dismiss it.
You show photographs of rainbow poppies with only an oblique reference attached. You either assume we're all aware of the history of this, which I suspect most are not - or, more likely, you're hoping that someone takes your post with photographs at face value and comments, so you can jump up and down and shout "See what I mean!" If the rainbow poppies are a genuine attempt to smear LGBTQ then that's wrong, and if you'd explained that in your original post, you'd most likely have got a "like" from me. My view is that what someone's sexual orientation is, is no business of mine. Live and let live. If a six foot, five inch ex docker with a beard wants to wear a dress and be called Alice, that's fine with me. What concerns me right now are attempts to confuse children about their own sexuality by asking them to wear dresses to school etc. Almost as if the gay leadership are looking to increase membership. And I'm wary of Stonewall and the undoubted power it has by starting a witch hunt against any company that won't adopt its advice. That's the background to my posts.
