Game Over For Ole

[cytrax]

Rio raised solid points in this article that not even Kante would solve our problems: https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/19/rio-...blem-under-ole-gunnar-solskjaer-15450530/amp/

That’s exactly where I’m at. I’m certainly not in the camp of screaming for defensive midfielder needed at this point. There is no system to speak to suggest that someone buying yet another player is the answer to our problems at this point in time.

Unfortunately, like many ex players, Rio avoids pointing direct fingers at the management team. He danced around it but it’s clear what he was implying.

Regardless of our issues, next two matches are an absolute must win!

 

[Treble]

What do you mean by not in the Premier League? Why should that be a prerequisite? Which of the current top managers in the league had experience in the League?

It is about the personality, vision and ability to execute against such vision. It has very little to do with Premier League experience in my opinion.

On the last point of who’s available, I mentioned Zidane before he left Real. I also mentioned Allegri not because he was available. Again, we need to focus on the attributes of the prospects as opposed to whether or not they are available.

I think Zidane would be a big risk. Don't know why. Maybe because his style suits continental style of play rather than the prem. Or the fact he's only proved himself at one club with all the resources in the world.

Honestly, I can't give you a definitive answer why I get that feeling. But what I will say is after LVG, Jose and Ole, it just feels like another risk and another mistake.

 

[Chief]

Maybe Zidane would be an interesting interim?

We'd obviously need to avoid the mad idea of repeating just giving him the full time job if he wins half a dozen games, but IF Ole were to leave he'd be a decent fit to see out the season while the actual manager is recruited.

Which is what they should have done last time of course, but that ship has long since sailed so you'd hope they'd learn from that mistake.

What Zidane would have that Ole didn't is top end experience. And he's also won plenty, which Ole hasn't, obviously. And he is also one of the finest players ever. So you'd get no prima donna bullshit.

 

[Bumps]

If he would come
I reckon Poch would be a brilliant move for you of the managers who have not won a lot and Allegri (?)
Genuinely would be devastated if. You got him

 

[cytrax]

Maybe Zidane would be an interesting interim?

We'd obviously need to avoid the mad idea of repeating just giving him the full time job if he wins half a dozen games, but IF Ole were to leave he'd be a decent fit to see out the season while the actual manager is recruited.

Which is what they should have done last time of course, but that ship has long since sailed so you'd hope they'd learn from that mistake.

What Zidane would have that Ole didn't is top end experience. And he's also won plenty, which Ole hasn't, obviously. And he is also one of the finest players ever. So you'd get no prima donna bullshit.

I certainly do not see why and how someone like Zidane would ever come in on an interim contract. He is absolutely no Ole and he has nothing to prove to anyone given his record as a manager. If we feel that someone like Zidane somehow wouldn't deserve a full time contract from day dot, then who would? Heck, Ole's contract has recently been extended to 2024 and we want to get entitled over who deserves the next contract?

I'm definitely missing the criteria being used to determine what constitutes a "proper" recruit in form of a manager.

1/ We don't seem to want anyone that is out of work.
2/ We don't want anyone without premier league experience.
3/ We don't want anyone that hasn't managed a top-top side.
4/ We don't want anyone that has coached a rival team - rule out Conte
5/ And lastly, I somehow doubt that we see any current British manager as a viable option.

So then, who is qualified? It certainly can't be all roads lead to just Poch as the single and only viable option. I doubt that he would take the risk of coming to United right now when he has an easy opportunity to get the French league under his belt while fighting for success in the Champions League. Poch is not viable right now in my opinion. We missed out on him, and we need to move forward.

 

[Chief]

I certainly do not see why and how someone like Zidane would ever come in on an interim contract. He is absolutely no Ole and he has nothing to prove to anyone given his record as a manager. If we feel that someone like Zidane somehow wouldn't deserve a full time contract from day dot, then who would? Heck, Ole's contract has recently been extended to 2024 and we want to get entitled over who deserves the next contract?

I'm definitely missing the criteria being used to determine what constitutes a "proper" recruit in form of a manager.

1/ We don't seem to want anyone that is out of work.
2/ We don't want anyone without premier league experience.
3/ We don't want anyone that hasn't managed a top-top side.
4/ We don't want anyone that has coached a rival team - rule out Conte
5/ And lastly, I somehow doubt that we see any current British manager as a viable option.

So then, who is qualified? It certainly can't be all roads lead to just Poch as the single and only viable option. I doubt that he would take the risk of coming to United right now when he has an easy opportunity to get the French league under his belt while fighting for success in the Champions League. Poch is not viable right now in my opinion. We missed out on him, and we need to move forward.

United would be mad to just give him an instant contract and Zidane would have no right to expect one.
He might not settle, he might not speak the lingo, it might just not work out for a start.

That's if this is a mid season scenario.

Should this happen and he takes over, see the season out and see where it takes us.

If it works, great. If not then they will have been considering other candidates in the meantime.

 

[Christiansmith]

A few days ago, someone (treble or cytrax I can’t remember who) asked a very pertinent question. “When all the top clubs seem to have no trouble identifying a top manager, why do we seem to struggle so much so unsuccessfully?”.

The response to this must be : Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

As I’ve said earlier, it looks like the difficult task of shoe horning Ronaldo at the last minute into an already good team with Varane, Sancho and emerging talents like Greenwood and Diallo may well be beyond Ole. I say this reluctantly as do many of his ex player pundits in the media come to the same conclusion. I am hoping against hope that he’ll prove me and everyone else wrong in the next few weeks.

we won’t get the perfect manager but what we desperately need at this moment is someone to provide us with a team playing as a team. Ronaldo cannot play every minute of every game. Are we making full use of the attacking talent available? Are we using the substitutions and the talent on the bench appropriately? What about getting our attacking players to do more defensively in midfield? Leicester to me was a turning point and a complete shambles. They cut through the midfield like a hot knife through butter. Conte could well do the necessary so could ZZ. Pogba not a perfect team player himself said something needed to change. Pogba of all people !

A change of manager may well help and something like the Chelsea turnaround with the swapping of manager wouldn’t go amiss. We can forget Poch as he won’t leave PSG mid season. Conte is available and seems keen to get back to the premiership. So what if he’s managed a rival before? He’ll be less of a gamble than Zidane who’s never managed here and not fluent in English (not necessarily a show stopper)

Throughout his United managerial career, Ole consistently pulled a rabbit out of the hat just when the trigger was being pulled. Can he do it again in the coming few weeks?

 

[cytrax]

I agree with your points in the message, Christiansmith… well, until I read the last line!

We truly have a team capable of winning the next five league games. As a matter of fact Ole has pulled several rabbits out of the hat in the last 3 years. I actually don’t doubt that this is possible. But I’m not disillusioned into thinking that the deficiencies with Ole will somehow disappear on bounce of a good run. The run starts and then ends again as it always has in the last three years with nothing to show for it. Consequently, the conclusion is still that Ole simply doesn’t have what it takes to take the team to the next level.

We need someone with all the qualities that you mentioned. I would personally take Conte or Zidane over Poch due to their strong character which I think this team badly needs at this point in time. Allegri would be the best! But not a chance given he just started his role. Maybe when Poch is done at PSG in the near future.

 

[Treble]

I think there's something else which needs to be highlighted. There's a question of considerable loyalty which although a good thing, and traditionally a trademark of the club, can actually become counter productive.

We can argue about the loyalty of the board in continuing with Ole, but why is Ole persisting with his loyalty towards his coaching staff - particularly Phelan and Carrick? It's clear things aren't working, either defensively or in midfield - the two areas you would expect them two with their areas of expertise to actually make good. The answer is simple - they're not great coaches. This is where Ole should be ruthless. If he wants to manage at the highest level, he has to be decisive and know when to let people go.

And considering, if he gets sacked there's absolutely no doubt them two would go as well, why not make that decision now and get some proper coaches in. If he did that I'd actually think he was showing some leadership.

 

[Christiansmith]

I agree with your points in the message, Christiansmith… well, until I read the last line!

.

That last line was not about him. That was about me wanting United to win all these difficult games, No matter whether a productive change of manager would be made more likely I have never wanted nor will I ever want my team to lose. And if that means we will have to undergo more uncertainty and inconsistency so be it.

 

[glazerfodder]

Poch in - ZZ to PSG, there's our answer. Or is it?

 

[cytrax]

Poch in - ZZ to PSG, there's our answer. Or is it?

Why would you take that option if you were Poch? I don’t see it!

He would want to win the French league to get something on his profile.

Zidane would be fantastic. The more I think about it, the more alignment I see.

 

[glazerfodder]

Why would you take that option if you were Poch? I don’t see it!

He would want to win the French league to get something on his profile.

Zidane would be fantastic. The more I think about it, the more alignment I see.

I doubt ZZ even knows how to spell PL let alone how to manage in such a competitive league. he was gifted a successful RM side, had zillions thrown at him to keep it working and was cock of the north while it was working well but is now a chicken nugget. He doesn't have the language, he has no experience outside of the RM bubble and his stated intention is to manage France. If we went for Poch he would jump at it. ZZ would slip into PSG until Dechamps leaves as national team manager.

 

[cytrax]

I’m sitting here watching replay of Bayern and Leverkusen, my god! The way they move the can around with such precision and intend. Just amazing! We really need a coach with an absolute keen attention to details and fully accountable to making sure the team executes as planned. Julian Nigelsmman is quite something!

 

[cytrax]

I doubt ZZ even knows how to spell PL let alone how to manage in such a competitive league. he was gifted a successful RM side, had zillions thrown at him to keep it working and was cock of the north while it was working well but is now a chicken nugget. He doesn't have the language, he has no experience outside of the RM bubble and his stated intention is to manage France. If we went for Poch he would jump at it. ZZ would slip into PSG until Dechamps leaves as national team manager.

Fascinating that somehow you think Zidane was gifted his success. What do you think of Ole being gifted arguably the best squad we’ve had in a decade and completely wasting it?

 

[glazerfodder]

Fascinating that somehow you think Zidane was gifted his success. What do you think of Ole being gifted arguably the best squad we’ve had in a decade and completely wasting it?

I make no comparison between ZZ's position in inheriting a dominating European side and Ole rebuilding a faltering United side. I'll leave you to come up with that connection

 

[Chief]

I make no comparison between ZZ's position in inheriting a dominating European side and Ole rebuilding a faltering United side. I'll leave you to come up with that connection

Ole is an amateur by comparison, not sure why you can't see what's in front of your eyes?

You claim a couple of posts up that Zidane doesn't have premier league experience?

Did taking Cardiff down qualify Solskjaer or something?

 

[Chief]

A variety of foreign managers have won the premier league in their first season with Chelsea by the way.

Four of them.

It didn't make any difference to them.

 

[glazerfodder]

Ole is an amateur by comparison, not sure why you can't see what's in front of your eyes?

You claim a couple of posts up that Zidane doesn't have premier league experience?

Did taking Cardiff down qualify Solskjaer or something?

I can see what everyone else can see, don't presume to speak for me. It come back to the same old same old. If not Ole, then who. Don't bang on constantly about Ole's obvious failings without coming to the discussion without a reasoned alternative, it's like taking fussy kids to Pizza Hut who only want chips. Let's have a grown up debate about who should replace ole - and why, that's the key - who is out there that will improve the side. I'll start - Steve Bruce

 

[Chief]

I would mate. Just for a start.

Ole is out of his depth, the end.

That you think there's no alternative doesn't justify keeping him.