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Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Deletion Requested1, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I don't think there is too much wrong with the system we have. Capitalism with a safety net for those who can't work and a temporary one for those who are out of work seems fair to me. Everyone who can, does their bit and pays in to the collective pot but there is (technically) no limit to how far you can progress through hard work and application. The only tweak I'd make to it is that those who do most for society are better rewarded.
    The problems are caused by those who seek to work the system to their own advantage. You would, unfortunately, get that in any political system but society has become too selfish, people have little interest in what's best for the wider community.
     
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  2. Pure River Slut

    Pure River Slut Well-Known Member

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    The winners are too big, the losers are too many. There is enough money out there for a comfortable universal basic income which ends the harm caused by poverty including crime which affects all and in turn UBI would create time and space for people to grow. The culture we have of greed and hating the undeserving poor is the culture and mindset of competitive capitalism and it needs to change, but those with power prosper from it and won’t change it like those in power benefit from first past the post democracy and won’t create a more representative system.
     
    #702
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  3. Pure River Slut

    Pure River Slut Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I partly get this. What others wouldn’t have done though is throw fortunes into the hands of their racing club mates, next door neighbours and donors and delay the lockdown to keep Cheltenham racecourse open and give the wife of an MP with no health experience a leading job in health. I have some sympathy for the difficulty in decision making but poor ethics and values have blighted theirs plus I think Boris is quite simply a poor leader of a poor team. He didn’t pick the best people for the best jobs he picked those loyal to Brexit and loyal to him. Hancock’s half hour the PC world regional manager as health minister ? Haway
     
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  4. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it's been there from the dawn of time. You could even argue that it's human nature.

    In cave man days it would have been the best hunter who was made chief and got first pickings from the hunt and has simply progressed through time.

    All cultures are the same in someway, there are rich and poor, powerful and weak, strong and oppressed. Can't ever see it changing to be honest.
     
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  5. Pure River Slut

    Pure River Slut Well-Known Member

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    That’s a good argument for having a government that prevents the ****ty sides of human nature dominating and promoting the better sides. Something the Green Party promote is measuring the strength of the nation by a good environment to live and health and wellbeing and not just financial wealth, I welcomed Starmer talking about measuring the nation on the wellbeing of it’s people - stolen from New Zealand, but welcome. I fail to see how anyone could have any arguments against this, but it would need huge policy change, from some more than others. It’s nuts that we don’t measure that anyway.
     
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  6. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. The problem isn't with the system but with those who fiddle it to gain an advantage and they occur throughout society. People are short-sighted and only think of themselves, not realising that if everyone followed the rules, it would be better for everyone. I agree with your comments about New Zealand. It reminds of the King of Bhutan's policy of gross national happiness being more important than gross domestic product. Bhutan remains (perhaps to its credit) a fairly undeveloped nation. If you remove the need to strive, you deaden the potential for innovation. Innovation is important to our society, as we've seen with the Covid vaccine and as we'll need in changing our habits of fuel consumption. As I've said many times on here now, its attitudes in society that need to change.
     
    #706
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  7. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    And you'd also need to ensure that egos were kept in check once elected.

    Unfortunately as has been proven over the millennia power corrupts. Once tasted 95% of people want more
     
    #707
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  8. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    The government keep saying they've spent millions/billions during the pandemic which I'm sure is true.

    I wonder how much has gone to friends to produce PPE that was useless or carry out tests that didn't work.

    Some people will be set up for life while some died because of their greed.

    They have blood on their hands that'll never wash off.
     
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  9. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    Whilst toxic comrade Corbyn, route to politics may be by a very different path.

    The problem with the likes of Bonko and Cameron is that of arrogance and stupidity.

    If you have a working class man or woman who by dint of hard work and brains has built up a thriving company or become a professor in a good university. They have something to be arrogant about and most certainly are not stupid.

    Sir Patrick Vallance who stood next to Bonko for the Covid19 briefings. Came from relatively humble origins, but being clever rose to head up a medical school in a London University... jumped ship to head up a research depth for a Pharm company, this resulted in £s billions of sales and £s millions in bonuses for him. He then took a huge pay cut to work in public service.

    Compare him to Bonko and Cameron, famous for dressing up and sticking their dicks in a pig. Their arrogance comes from being posh and attending Eton. Their degree of Politics Philosophy and Economics (PPE) is a complete waste of time. Neither of them have done anything or achieved anything... but yet end up as PMs...

    Starmer is very boring and clever, came from relatively humble beginings and by being brainy and hard working achieved a lot. But then so was Angela Merkel, a very good leader for Germany.

    Imho we do not need as leaders the likes of Trump or Bonko... but more like Merkel
     
    #709
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  10. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    The massive promises of levelling up and investment in the NE won't be kept, we all know that if we're honest.

    Just like our dreams of Sunderland winning the PL it's the hope that keeps us going but we all know the reality.

    It's a shame but Boris has honed the art of fooling people with bluster and daft jokes.

    I gave up thinking about party politics years ago ...

    .... still think we could do a Leicester though <laugh>
     
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  11. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    Are you still struggling for fuel down your way, we don’t have any problems now no shortage of drivers or fuel, funnily enough the problem seemed to disappear when it reached £1.46 a ltr.
     
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  12. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    While I have much more respect for Patrick Vallance (and even, to some extent, Starmer) than I do for Boris or Cameron, the idea that Eton only produces feckless, arrogant idiots, suitable only for the Upper Class Twit of the Year Show, is another of these myths that people like to trot out (see in contrast- Perry Anderson, John Baskervyle-Glegg, Adam Hart-Davis, Ranulph Fiennes, Francis Pryor, Jonathon Porritt, Bill Turnbull, Justin Welby, Hugh Laurie, Matthew Pinsent, Damien Lewis, Bear Grylls). The arrogance of those two stems from their personalities, not the school they went to. To some extent, its also a character trait required in a politician, or at least in one who wishes to become PM.

    I'd recommend watching the BBC's 28 and up. There's a kid on there who went to Eton and, despite being a bit weird, seems fairly well adjusted and down to earth. That's an interesting watch. The stories of many of the people on there dispel a lot of popular myths.

    As for Eton, and the quality of an Oxbridge degree, I'd argue that those made you much more qualified for government than a BTec Level 2, as one of the leading opposition politicians has.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  13. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    It's usually around 1.45 here so hard to judge.

    It's not back to normal but much better except weekends when the tourists fill up before they head home. Monday mornings is when we struggle but I fill everything on Fridays including the cans for the machinery. That means i have enough for the week including a drive to Crewe on Tuesday.

    However there must still be a shortage of drivers otherwise Shapps wouldn't be introducing all these new measures would he.
     
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  14. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    Are the shortages down your way we seem ok up here but saying that we’ve never had to many drivers up here because there is always advertisements out for them but this was before covid started anyway. Probably just crap money round here.
     
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  15. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    To take it down to basics we've lost a fair few European drivers recently.

    They can travel all over Europe without restrictions or the need to cross the channel.

    That's the reverse for UK drivers, bit I've no idea what effect that will have.

    My main concern is for our farming industry as we import ten times the fruit & veg, that we export, and about three times the meat.

    Any hold ups at ports and ferry terminals could cause food shortages, not to mention the shortfall in labourers to process crops, meat, etc.

    I'm sure food prices will go up but haven't a clue how we improve things.

    Wage increases are great if they keep up with food prices but the poor award to the NHS won't help us replace the Europeans we've lost ...

    ... or keep the British staff we already have.
     
    #715
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  16. Pure River Slut

    Pure River Slut Well-Known Member

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    Surely you don’t think a cabinet almost entirely full of fee paying public school boys is a good thing for representation of people in this country ? Of course not all public school kids or Etonians are bad people - am I right in saying Tony Benn was one for example ? Firmly in the redistribute wealth camp. But these schools using wealth to train people to dominate politics and economics isn’t a good thing and I’d say the non academics are successful business people . Diversity is always a strength so a combination of academics , practicers, philosophers, unionists, business people, public servants and those with experience of life are surely the ideal surely. Leadership of the country is badly balanced in the leading parties but especially the Conservative party who in no way represent my views and many others.
     
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  17. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    My feelings are that people given cabinet roles should have some relevant experience to the roles that they hold. So, on that basis, I agree that the cabinet should be made up of a combination of business people, academics etc. etc. The school that they went to makes absolutely no difference to their ability to do the job so I couldn't care less if they went to Eton or to my local comprehensive. The same is true of their views, plenty of people on the far left went to public schools- Kim Philby, for example, was educated at Westminster School. Someone doesn't have to have had the same experiences in life as me for their views to resonate with me. I do think its important that people in government are well-educated, know what they are talking about, know how to conduct themselves in public office, and are honest.
     
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  18. DH4

    DH4 Well-Known Member

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    Dodgy Dave and Bonko see themselves as born to rule over us mere mortal state school alumni , as the motto of their time together in the infamous Bullingdon club says "**** The Plebs".
     
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  19. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I've been in a busy Cheltenham bar for a couple of hours but alone so just on here or listening to the crack.

    People are complaining because the Guinness is off along with a few other beers. I'm ordering on the App and went for my second Moretti but that was off as well so had a Peroni. The landlord was explaining that they're on auto-order so no one's forgotten to order. Apparently it's delivery problems.

    If things get worse, before Christmas, they'll have to bring the army back in <laugh>
     
    #719
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  20. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    When I first started work, pennies were tight, I had three globes for making beer.
    Bitter during the summer and a stout for the winter. Plenty of poor like me friends used to come round.
    Now I am a member of the Wine Society and get it delivered... how times change.
     
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