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Grand Prix thread Monza - Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio D’italia 2021

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Sep 9, 2021.

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Who will cross the line first?

Poll closed Sep 10, 2021.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    5 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Max Verstappen

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  3. Valtteri Bottas

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Charles Leclerc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Pierre Gasly

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. George Russell

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid a lot of this is about character, which is moulded by upbringing. You don't have to look far to find influences in the Verstappen family.

    Leaving aside the crash, I was shocked by the dismissive glance at Hamilton while still in the cockpit under the RB car. I feel sure 9 out of 10 drivers would have stopped to see if he was alright.

    Secondly, while bad language aimed at other drivers who happen to be on the bit of tarmac Verstappen wants isn't unusual, yesterday something was bleeped out that had been aimed at his own pit crew after the slow stop. A slow stop is frustrating I'm sure but swearing publicly at your team mates when they've dropped the ball isn't. a motivational tool I'm familiar with.

    Well done to McClaren. So good to see them back at the front of the grid. Come on Williams! We'll done obviously to Danny Ric but also to Lando Norris. After appearing to be hhe quicker of the two, it must have been a slightly bitter pill to finish second, and to be told to do it too. He carried it off with good grace and that is the way to keep your team committed to you.
     
    #201
  2. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree- Max is how many seasons in now and STILL a petulant child.

    I genuinely do not know what the **** he expected to happen yesterday. He wasn’t ever ahead of Lewis and on the outside into the chicane, he would always lose space as Lewis turned in.
    Max thinks he has a given right to bully people off the track and he’s finding that the 7 x WDC is having none of it and teaching him a bit of a lesson.

    Sadly, the little idiot hasn’t taken any of the lesson on board.

    He is very hard to like, talented though he is.
     
    #202
  3. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I think this is what I found annoying in Max and Red Bull's attitude, the inconsistency.

    If Max is allowed to defend like he did in T4 (and has on numerous other occasions...) then it was Max's responsibility to bail in the T1 collision.

    If Hamilton's T1 defending was wrong, then Verstappen's in T4 was far more egregious as there was absolutely no space left on track. I was amazed that T4 incident wasn't even looked at. You can't put that down to "lap 1 chaos", Verstappen was in complete control the whole time and chose to crowd Hamilton beyond track limits.
     
    #203
  4. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    As has been said here, Max has his attitude supported by RBR management who really need to take some responsibility here. Hence I believe if the team management won't do it the sport itself must take some responsibility for reminding the drivers of the limits and perhaps consider firmer action before someone gets hurt.
    A leopard doesn't change it spots. He lacks empathy and normal levels of humanity.
     
    #204
  5. taeleon

    taeleon Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be the way of it, as the safety increases so to do the risks so the danger is always there. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where F1 is completely safe but I do wish some of the drivers would be a bit more cautious and not rely so heavily on some of the safety features of the sport. Though I don't think it's people intentionally taking more risks, I think it's just something that comes naturally as the safety increases.
     
    #205
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  6. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    In a lot of cases it's self interest too. Yes, we want to see overtaking above all else but the old adage "in order to finish first, you first have to finish" still applies.

    As soon as you have contact, you don't know whether it's you going back to the pits on a moped or your opponent. Some have accused Verstappen of deliberately taking Hamilton out to maintain his Championship lead but it's too early and the lead too small for that even if he would do such a thing.

    I think he felt pressurised by the surprising performance of the McLarens, which must have been a big disappointment with both Mercedes some way back. He wasn't making any impression on Ricciardo and Norris was lurking behind. Then came a slow stop from the team who are usually quickest and then Hamilton just just gets out in time from his own stop and squeezes him onto the white line on the entry to Rettifilo. Logic would say give Hamilton the corner, but you take the best line through it, get right on his tail through Curva Grande and nail him in a faster car at the next chicane. But the red mist came down........
     
    #206
  7. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    Silly question as i was asleep but who was in front (track position) when Hamilton exited the pits?

    If Verstappen had track position then blue flags should have been waved and Hamilton should have gotten out of the way. As i said, was asleep so unsure about positions atthe time.
     
    #207
  8. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    Max Verstappen is without question the most complete Formula 1 prick driver that I have ever witnessed. For a driver to have crashed in basically the same manner on so many occasions is ludicrous, totally irresponsible and will likely eventually end with a death if he is not stopped.

    Come on FIA get it sorted what the hell are you playing at !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #208
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    ched999uk likes this.
  9. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    9/10 seems quite a low estimate!
     
    #209
  10. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Max pitted first from 2nd, Lewis was then 1st when he pitted a couple of laps later (I think). As Lewis was re-joining the track from the pits there was a blue flag waved which I was surprised at as I think it was Lando in front of the 2 of them (maybe Riccy? defo a McL). I couldn't work out what the blue flag was about as all 3 were racing for position on the same lap.
    It was one of those incidents that only happened due to a very poor stop for max and a bad one for Lewis. That said what ever corner they are racing for usually ends up in max not giving an inch and believing everyone should allow him through as he is Max. That may be a bit harsh but Max isn't learning when to fight the battle and when to wait for the next corner. I realise that by not giving an inch makes other drivers more likely to get out of his way to save their own race but if he carries on like this I fear someone will be badly injured.
     
    #210

  11. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    I'm of the opinion Jos severely punished him as a child whenever he got over-taken
     
    #211
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  12. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    The bloke is a brilliant driver though. Just too aggressive at times. Fix that and he'll be absolutely top drawer.

    I'm just wondering how this is going to work out in the remaining races. Somehow they're going to have to have a word with the pair to try sort it out.
     
    #212
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  13. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    Max's reputation greatly exceeds his actual crimes. From memory, i think it's the first crash he's caused in over two years. Anyone who says he hasn't improved has forgotten what he was actually like from 2015-2018.

    He does invariably come across as unapologetic and arrogant so I get why the attitudes grates on people, but I really don't see the evidence that he's any worse than the rest on track.
     
    #213
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  14. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    He has a faster car these days so less people are able to get close enough to make a move, that's what changed, and the other drivers are wary.
     
    #214
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  15. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he's more inclined to give less against Hamilton as he's his only direct rival for the title. Regardless of blame here and Silverstone, he may have more of a points cushion with more caution. Easier said than done in the heat of battle I guess.
     
    #215
  16. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I am trying not to dislike him, recognising he has got talent but then he goes and does something to make one realise he is an unpleasant person. It is not impossible to be good and decent, Emma Raducanu is evidence of that. Real talent allows you to be generous to your fellow competitors while still competitive and a winner.
     
    #216
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  17. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    True, he is very quick, shame he has a massive void in his skill level, he approached the corner at 225 mph at the same time Hamilton exited the pits
     
    #217
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  18. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    So the FIA safety dept are going to be taking a bit of a closer look at the crash. Wonder if that's to do with the amount of debris potentially intruding the cockpit form the sides and not just the wheel hitting Hamilton on the head.

    The Halo has done great so far, but my concern as always been something being forced under the hoop. Felt like part of Max's floor was close to doing that.
     
    #218
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  19. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the way to go will be as you suggested with a canopy. Don't like the idea of that, but I have got used to the halo !
     
    #219
  20. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...even that has other factors that are dangerous. Especially in something like what happened to Grosjean.
     
    #220
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