1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Spain's Baby Snatchers

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Medro, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    16,416
    Likes Received:
    356
    Spanish society has been shaken by allegations of the theft and trafficking of thousands of babies by nuns, priests and doctors, which started under Franco and continued up to the 1990s.

    I first met Manoli Pagador in Getafe, in a working-class suburb of Madrid. She was attending a meeting for people affected by the scandal Spaniards call "ninos robados" - stolen children.

    She has three daughters and lots of grandchildren, but she has never got over the loss of her first-born - a son - nearly 40 years ago.

    She had come to think she was crazy for believing he was alive, instead of dead and buried as hospital doctors had told her.

    "Now," she said, gripping my hand tightly. "Look around the room at the other women here. All like me. The same background. The same experience. I'm not mad and my family finally believes me."

    In 1971 Manoli, who was 23 at the time and not long married, gave birth to what she was told was a healthy baby boy, but he was immediately taken away for what were called routine tests.

    Nine interminable hours passed. "Then, a nun, who was also a nurse, coldly informed me that my baby had died," she says.

    They would not let her have her son's body, nor would they tell her when the funeral would be.

    Did she not think to question the hospital staff?

    "Doctors, nuns?" she says, almost in horror. "I couldn't accuse them of lying. This was Franco's Spain. A dictatorship. Even now we Spaniards tend not to question authority."

    The scale of the baby trafficking was unknown until this year, when two men - Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno, childhood friends from a seaside town near Barcelona - discovered that they had been bought from a nun. Their parents weren't their real parents, and their life had been built on a lie.

    Juan Luis Moreno discovered the truth when the man he had been brought to call "father" was on his deathbed.

    "He said, 'I bought you from a priest in Zaragoza'. He said that Antonio had been bought as well."

    The pair were hurt and angry. They say they felt like two dogs that had been bought at a pet shop. An adoption lawyer they turned to for advice said he came across cases like theirs all the time.

    The pair went to the press and suddenly the story was everywhere. Mothers began to come forward across Spain with disturbingly similar stories.

    'Approved families'

    After months of requests from the BBC, the Spanish government finally put forward Angel Nunez from the justice ministry to talk to me about Spain's stolen children.

    Asked if babies were stolen, Mr Nunez replied: "Without a doubt".

    "How many?" I asked.

    "I don't dare to come up with figures," he answered carefully. "But from the volume of official investigations I dare to say there were many."

    Lawyers believe that up to 300,000 babies were taken.

    The practice of removing children from parents deemed "undesirable" and placing them with "approved" families, began in the 1930s under the dictator General Francisco Franco.

    At that time, the motivation may have been ideological. But years later, it seemed to change - babies began to be taken from parents considered morally - or economically - deficient. It became a money-spinner, too.

    The scandal is closely linked to the Catholic Church, which under Franco assumed a prominent role in Spain's social services including hospitals, schools and children's homes.

    Nuns and priests compiled waiting lists of would-be adoptive parents, while doctors were said to have lied to mothers about the fate of their children.

    The name of one doctor, Dr Eduardo Vela, has come up in a number of victim investigations.

    In 1981, Civil Registry sources indicate that 70% of births at Dr Vela's San Ramon clinic in Madrid were registered as "mother unknown".

    This was legal under Spanish law, and was meant to protect the anonymity of unmarried mothers. It is alleged that this was also widely used to cover up baby theft and trafficking.

    Dr Vela stands accused of telling women their babies had died when they had not and handing over those newborn children to other couples for cash.

    A Spanish magazine published photographs of a dead baby kept in a freezer at the San Ramon clinic, supposedly to show mothers that their child had died.

    He refused to give the BBC an interview. But, by coincidence, I had recently given birth at a clinic he founded, so I was able to book an appointment with him.

    We met at his private practice in his home in Madrid. The man painted as a monster in the Spanish media was old and smiley, but his smile soon disappeared when I confessed to being a journalist.

    Dr Vela grabbed a metal crucifix which had been standing on his desk. He moved towards me brandishing it in my face. "Do you know what this is, Katya?" he said. "I have always acted in his name. Always for the good of the children and to protect the mothers. Enough."

    Dr Vela insists he always acted within the law.

    Empty graves

    After Franco's death in 1975, the major political parties agreed an amnesty to help smooth the transition to democracy.

    But this amnesty law has never been repealed, so attempts to investigate Spain's baby trafficking as a national crime against humanity have been rejected by the country's judiciary and resisted by its politicians.

    "Thirty-five years have passed since the death of the dictator… Evidently, we still have problems from the past. Social problems and personal or even cultural problems and the policy of this government has been trying to solve them," says the justice ministry's Angel Nunez.

    The Spanish government's refusal to set up a national inquiry into the scandal has frustrated affected families, who in many cases are carrying out their own investigations, as best they can.

    Babies' graves have been dug up across the country for DNA-testing. Some have revealed nothing but a pile of stones, while others have contained adult remains.

    Spaniards have flocked to clinics to take DNA tests in the hope of reuniting their families.

    The first few matches have now been made between so-called stolen children and their biological mothers. But there could potentially have already been so many more. Data protection laws prohibit DNA banks from sharing or cross-referencing data and the Spanish government has yet to fulfil its promise to set up a national DNA database.

    Manoli Pagador is still tortured by the events of 40 years ago. She told me she has been taking medication ever since.

    "You can't just say to yourself, I have to forget it and that's it.

    "It's not something you forget, it's with you for the rest of your life."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15335899
     
    #1
  2. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    31,025
    Likes Received:
    4,561
    Al-Shabaab threatens Kenya as troops cross into Somalia

    AL-SHABAAB militants linked to al-Qaeda have rushed reinforcements to Somalia’s southern border with Kenya in response to a Kenyan cross-border offensive and threatened to take the “flames of war” into the neighbouring country.

    Kenyan troops launched an offensive with Somali forces in southern Somalia at the weekend in a risky attempt to secure the border and end a series of kidnappings that have hit Kenya’s reputation among tourists and investors.

    The Kenyan military said the operation, involving air and ground raids, was going well, but the al-Qaeda-linked militants, who have wrested control of much of Somalia from a weak internationally backed interim government and warlords, threatened to retaliate.

    “Kenyan troops have entered 100km into Somalia and their planes bombarded many places and killed residents,” al-Shabaab spokesman Sheikh Ali Mohamud Rage said. He warned them: “We shall come into Kenya if you do not go back.”

    Residents in southern Somalia said both sides were heading towards the town of Afmadow, a rebel stronghold until air strikes on Sunday on nearby rebel camps dislodged their grip.

    A Kenyan military officer based in Liboi, a border post on the frontier about 75 miles to the west of Afmadow, said the joint military operation had made progress, driving al-Shabaab away from the border area.

    “Our team inside Somalia is doing well. So far, we have uprooted al-Shabaab from Dhobley after the air and ground raids,” he said, referring to the Somali district across the border. “We are working with other friendly armed groups … to fight the common enemy, al-Shabaab.”

    Abdinasir Serar, a senior commander in the Ras Kamboni militia allied to the Somali government, said: “We are near Afmadow which we are waiting to capture in the coming hours.”

    Afmadow town elder Abdi Gaboobe said the militants had deployed fighters around the city and were digging trenches in anticipation of a clash, while another resident said hundreds of fighters were seen hiding in jungles surrounding the town.

    Earlier yesterday, a resident in the village of Qoqani, between the border and Afmadow, confirmed Kenyan troop movements in the area.

    In the southern port city of Kismayu, the nerve centre of al-Shabaab’s southern operations, locals said the insurgents were heading north of the road to Afmadow to confront the advancing Kenyan and Somali troops.

    Ismail Aden said: “All al-Shabaab’s fighters and their armed vehicles in Kismayu have taken the road towards Afmadow. People are afraid here.”

    As columns of al-Shabaab technicals – open-backed 4x4 vehicles mounted with heavy machine guns – raced towards Afmadow, the militants warned Kenya to pull its troops out of Somalia or face retribution.

    In a statement, its spokesman Mr Rage said: “Do not let the flames of this war spill over into your country.”

    Kenya has blamed al-Shabaab for the abduction of two Spanish aid workers last week from Dadaab, the world’s biggest refugee camp, which lies close to the border with Somalia.

    Mr Rage dismissed the accusation and said the militants were also not responsible for the recent kidnapping of a disabled French woman and British holiday maker Judith Tebbutt from the north Kenyan coast in two separate incidents.

    He said: “Kenyan troops have entered Somalia under the pretext of chasing hostages. Al-Shabaab is not behind any abductions.”

    Security sources say the British and French women are being held in territory controlled by al-Shabaab in central Somalia, highlighting co-operation between the militants and criminal networks such as pirates who hijack vessels for ransom.

    East Africa’s biggest economy has long looked nervously at its anarchic neighbour and its troops have made brief incursions into Somali territory in the past. The latest operation risks dragging Kenya deeper into Somalia’s two-decade civil war and drawing retaliatory attacks on Kenyan interests by al-Shabaab.

    Keen to avoid a spillover of violence by al-Qaeda-trained foreign jihadists seeking haven in Somalia, as well as al-Shabaab rebels entrenched in the south, Nairobi has in the past contemplated creating a buffer zone along its border.

    Kenya has already trained thousands of newly recruited Somali soldiers to man the frontier. It also provides logistical and intelligence support to Somali government troops and government-friendly militia.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/intern..._kenya_as_troops_cross_into_somalia_1_1915743
     
    #2
  3. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    34,179
    Likes Received:
    9,757
  4. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    31,025
    Likes Received:
    4,561
    I concur.
     
    #4
  5. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    16,416
    Likes Received:
    356
    I thought the baby snatching story was a bit of a shocker. Estimated 300,000 kids taken from their families. Must be entitled to compensation.
     
    #5
  6. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    31,025
    Likes Received:
    4,561
    And the fact that it's a Catholic country and the story is about nuns and priests is just a massive coincidence?
     
    #6
  7. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    38,498
    Likes Received:
    14,982
    See, its not just the Portuguese
     
    #7
  8. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    16,416
    Likes Received:
    356
    Yeah Stereoracist. Do you not think abducting 300,000 children and rehousing them is shocking?
     
    #8
  9. Otto Flayshow

    Otto Flayshow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,150
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    please log in to view this image
     
    #9
  10. Girvan Loyal 1690

    Girvan Loyal 1690 Nobody's safe now

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    40,526
    Likes Received:
    17,744
    <laugh>
     
    #10

  11. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    63,752
    Likes Received:
    13,027
    Maybe Medro will start a thread on the child abuse in NI which Ian Paisley covered up?
     
    #11
  12. stopmeandslapme

    stopmeandslapme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    20,359
    Likes Received:
    10,318
    THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND babies stolen and sold - "ah but some proddy once touched a choir boys cock".
     
    #12
  13. Zinc Alloy

    Zinc Alloy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    1
    You gotta love those Christians.

    Just doing gods work.
     
    #13
  14. Sir_Red

    Sir_Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    687
    Catholic church involved in a cover up, whats new... <whistle>
     
    #14
  15. Otto Flayshow

    Otto Flayshow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,150
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    What's the fascination Medro?

    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image
     
    #15
  16. Medro

    Medro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    16,416
    Likes Received:
    356
    Never heard about that. When did this happen?
     
    #16
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,248
    Likes Received:
    55,726
    He wouldn't have done a good job of covering it up if you had!
     
    #17
  18. VenomPD

    VenomPD Merrick jr

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    23,951
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    <laugh> <laugh>

    Medro is a trier. You've got to give him that at least.

    The Catholic Church involved in shadowy business and moral hypocrisy. Wonders never cease <doh>
     
    #18
  19. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    63,752
    Likes Received:
    13,027
    Google it <ok>
     
    #19
  20. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    63,752
    Likes Received:
    13,027
    Ian Paisley, the former Northern Ireland firebrand then First Minister, has reinvented himself once again as a 'champion' for victims of child sex abuse. Paisley made his comments when announcing he was going to Scotland this weel to protest against Pope Benedict and his oversight on the child abuse issue while in the Vatican.

    The founder of the Free Presbyterian Church will join a protest in Scotland against this week&#8217;s visit to Britain by Pope Benedict

    "This man is coming to this country at a time when his own church is very deeply divided, and rightly so, because of the behaviour of many priests within the church and his evident desire not to enter into this matter and deal with it,&#8221; Dr Paisley told the BBC.

    Paisley claimed he had been contacted by &#8220;many Roman Catholic people&#8221; who were troubled &#8220;by the actions of Rome&#8221; in regard to the abuse of children. &#8220;I think that I have a right &#8211; everybody has a right &#8211; to make their presence felt on this issue,&#8221; he said.

    What a hypocrite

    I'm sure Paisley is familiar with the bible admonition that "Let him without sin cast the first stone."Back in 1973 a full-time missionary in Paisley's church, Valerie Shaw, approached Paisley with horrific news. A senior administrator at the Kincora orphanage in Belfast and a close ally of Paisley named William McGrath was abusing boys at the home.

    Paisley ignored Shaw and refused to investigate. In January 1980 the Kincora scandal broke amid allegations, later proven of massive abuse of children at the home. Paisley knew the ringleader McGrath very well and McGrath had accompanied him to many meetings.He denied Shaw had told him about McGrath years earlier, but under pressure later admitted he had been told of her suspicions.This is the man who now proposes to attack the pope on the same issue.

    The words kettle and black and hypocrite come to mind

    Read more:
    http://www.irishcentral.com/story/n...-his-own-history-102826814.html#ixzz1b8kvVM7u
     
    #20

Share This Page