I spent most of my twenties trying to work out why Wilkins was picked for England ahead of Hoddle. I eventually worked out that positional sense and not losing the ball were more valuable than I thought. I think many of you are making the same mistake with Winks.
Intentions/ expectations are one thing, actual ability is another. Winks should never have been put in the same conversations as players like that. Party round mine the day he’s sold. Like I’ve said, worst central midfielder we’ve had in the last 15 years that’s played regular football.
Yes the loss of Super Jan cannot be underestimated the one defender we had who could actually organise the defenders around him, it is noticeable that none of the other centre backs have ever looked better when not partnered by him. It is also a fact that if Winks had put the ball into road Z in the West Ham match we would have won that game and Jose may have had more confidence to continue with the more attacking style that we had started the season with.
Eriksen was hardly setting the world alight in the first half of 2019 20 and our best run of results was after he left with Winks and Sissoko starting most of the time. We were doing about as well at the beginning of 2020 21 and then our form fell away badly.
I'll take whoever Hoddle is in this analogy, thanks! No disrespect to Wilkins, but I know which one I'd rather have on the pitch for my team.
Do to strategic alterations, in my opinion. We started being too defensive, overplayed some players for no apparent reason and spiralled.
Not even close, as off the top of my head Danny Murphy Paulinho Didier Zokora Etienne Capoue All of them were used in their preferred roles, and either failed miserably or couldn't be arsed to even try
I’d take Zokora any day of the week over Winks, he was a real crowd favourite even if he couldn’t pass or shoot for **** (ironically the same as Winks). On footballing ability I’d take Capoue over Winks too, just a shame his attitude stunk. If AVB wasn’t manager when Paulinho signed then we probably would’ve seen closer to the Barcelona version, by the time Poch came he was too broken at the club. Murphy’s the only one I’d agree with in terms of pure ability, he was gash.
Wink does give the ball away though. Off the top of my head he cost us a goal v Evertong when we lost 5-4 in the FA Cup and v West Ham when we drew 3 all. In most games he gives the ball away at least once or twice in dangerous positions. I think he is so lacking in confidence with is that only a move will save his career in the Premier League
Same here....and we don't have a Hoddle to replace Winks. I guess I think Winks is Wilkins and Hojbjerg is Peter Reid. Wilkins and Robson kept being picked over Hoddle and Reid so the analogy doesn't quite work. But with hindsight I now understand why the selection was made. People underestimate calm measured players with positional sense who play safe passes.
I don't think the West Ham one was his fault. He was stretching to reach the ball and his clearance didn't make it past Lanzini. He was also the first to try to close Lanzini down but was blocked off by a West Ham player. Winks was dropped after that and I agree that he looks less confident since. As I've already pointed out Hojbjerg gave away two goals in the Everton game. He also gives the ball away a lot.
You've highlighted the issue in your first sentence, for me. We don't have a Hoddle. Obviously we're not likely to sign a player of his ability, but we don't have a playmaker at all. No Hoddle, no Modric, no Carrick, not even an Eriksen. We have plenty of good players, just nobody tying it together or a style that could make it work. Lo Celso will be shifted about to try and get him to do a job in the midfield, but he's better higher up. Alli's been sacrificed into a deeper role already and others will join him.
I don't deny that re Hojbjerg...was just suggesting that saying Winks keeps possession is not accurate...you yourself used the word "also" regarding Hojbjerg in relation to Winks. This contradicts your earlier posts that he rarely give the ball away.
But if we had Hoddle who would you play him with? I suspect Skipp is the best option. I think Skipp and Lo Celso is probably our best pairing and Hojbjerg and Winks would be adequate back up. Dele or Ndombele in a more attacking role with Kane, Son and Lucas or Gil up front.
Zokora made Sissoko look reliable. It's no coincidence our defence tightened up when we replaced him with Palacios Another issue with our squad is that a chunk of it is effectively there for football we haven't played for 3-4 years now. Case in point, in the 2016-17 season we had Dembele, Walker and Rose creating space which Winks could ping passes through - but since then we've not played that way, instead we've played either 2018-19: Air Raid 2019-20 Pt.1: THAT BASTARD MOTHERFUCKING DIAMOND 2019-20 Pt.2: Serge Aurier is Lionel Messi, right? 2021-21: Seven donkeys who run around for ninety minutes It's not just Winks who was ill-suited to all of those, numerous players in our squad were, for example last season we were playing a game ill-suited for Gareth Bale, Steven Bergwijn, Toby Alderweireld, Dele Alli, Tanguy Ndombele and Davinson Sanchez, and that can't be pinned on all of them regressing or all of them not being good enough, similarly the Air Raid tactics in 2018-19 were ill-suited for Christian Eriksen and Jan Vertonghen (and we do not talk about the system between the two - no, we do not) Long story short (too late...), based on how Mason tweaked us late last season and some of the pre-season appearances under Nuno, this coming season Winks is one of those players that any Football Manager player knows all too well: somebody who'll stick around for the first season as the tactics get implemented and so Hojbjerg can get a few games rest, but come the second season he's gone either because Nile John and/or Harvey White step up or that we sign a clear improvement for somebody in that role Unless we sign Houssem Aouar this summer, then he's off in January
