Careful, you will have HBIC chasing you for being a jingoistic little Englander who is the puppet of a Tory Government. And you thought you were just a football supporter
Just in case there is any doubt, I’d like to say one final thing IT’S COMING HOME, IT’S COMING, FOOTBALL’S COMING HOME!!!
I would get a lot of joy from Harry lifting the trophy but share @humanbeingincroydon misgivings about the galvanising effect it will have on people who have obnoxious views about the country. And most politicians are not liars and cheats. The vast majority of them are trying their best to improve the country. Even the ones I disagree with. However the few who are liars and cheats are in control of the current government who got elected on a flat lie which most of their supporters care little about because of their xenophobia and racism. So if England losing on Sunday somehow hastened the fall of this Government I would be even more pleased.
Just because there are jingoistic tories doesn't mean that everyone who would rejoice in an England win is one. Similarly just because a majority of racists voted for Brexit and Tory in the last election, that doesn't mean that all Tories and Brexit voters are racist. I am sure @humanbeingincroydon understands this. Your post suggests that either you don't or you are simply wumming. Based on your previous efforts on here I've been unable to decide if you are an idiot or a wum.
Have you read his recent posts? EDIT.........oh, and you will know without doubt when i am wumming (yes i do this and others know it) but i doubt if you will ever know if i'm an idiot
How does England losing hasten the fall of this government? Just enjoy the footy and leave the politics out of it. I promise you’ll enjoy it more if you do that.
Some weird people on here mate, can't differentiate between enjoying your teams success and politics I wonder why we have "internationals" at any sport if it's only for the Governments
Yes I am aware that sweeping generalisations of this nature are seldom actually true, whilst many people in politics both nationally and locally are trying to make things better, those who rise to the highest echelons always seem to be those who are the least trustworthy. I am actually a great believer in the democratic process in this country, its just a shame that so many people continue to support a voting system that prevents any chance of meaningful change. But thats not really a topic for this thread!! So lets just say in a completely sport only and footballer supporters mindset Come On England
W M -----------------O Don't make me post that picture of you in the crowd in the England vs Germany matches in the 1930s, showing "solidarity" with the England team by also doing the Nazi salute ...
I am conflicted over this whole subject of football and flags, in fact over international sport in general. I stopped watching the Olympic games in 2004, Athens being the last one I watched. The modern Olympics had gone from a celebration of amateur sport to a professional based celebration of Country. Ironically this happened once the British aristocracy lost control of the modern games. I have continued watching international football because, again ironically, it is the one form of the game, apart from kick abouts in the park, where you can't just buy players to improve your chances, although they are stretching the rules of nationality as far as they can to get those 'best' players. I am sometimes uncomfortable with my support for Spurs and this will no doubt increase when things like the ESL are muted. That ESL incident did pretty much unite football fans in their condemnation and this shows where my confliction lies. Those same football fans are celebrating the success of Southgate's England team and wrapping themselves in the flag of St. George, which is more appropriate than the Unions Jacks that were mostly in evidence in 1966. What happens next is where in my opinion it starts to go wrong. As long as the England football team fails the issue does not arise but as soon as there is a measure of success huge numbers of the non footballing English population start joining the celebrations. From politicians to racists, xenophobes, and little Englanders and any number of unsavory characters. I have to tell you that despite being English and having spent most of my life in England I don't actually like the English very much, many people are excepted from that of course, including friends and relations and many millions of decent English humans. Why because basically the English keep voting for the Tories and keep supporting Thatcherite policies. They vote for a moron like Boris, no doubt because he made them laugh on TV. We have much in our history to be ashamed of but consistently hear from proud little Englanders. When I first left the UK in 1963 my eyes were immediately opened to how backward Britain was compared to places like Germany and France and Scandinavia. It still is in my view and Brexit just about sums up the English postion. All of this leads me to feel not just uncomfortable but angry with this thinking that winning a football match somehow justifies their narrow minded views. Sing your songs if you like and wave your support but just be aware of how you are being used by others with their own agenda.
Didn’t you see the if in my post. It was theoretical. I enjoy football as much as anyone I know. But politics and sport do interact and always have.
Will things really be any better if England lose tomorrow? In '96, after the semi-final loss, the knuckle draggers smashed up German cars in an act of....well, rampant stupidity. I used to live near a Portuguese cafe and delicatessen, which had its glass frontage smashed in 2006. Unfortunately, Stupid, hateful people will do stupid, hateful things. Those who promote or support xenophobia won't be meaningfully changed by the result and it'll be the same for those of us who feel the opposite. Nations and governments will use sport to try and justify their regimes. Communist Russia spent untold amounts of money cheating to win Olympic medals and ultimately it counted for very little. Whatever political capital is to be had out of winning this tournament (and I don't think it's very much) will be gone and forgotten very soon. A few games into next season, Harry Kane will be fielding disgraceful insults from fans of Arsenal and Chelsea and West Ham....and...and. Whilst the same people cheer their German defender and Italian midfielder to the echo. Tomorrow, just make sure to stick your Fiat or Ferrari in the garage.
No I don't think it will make much difference if England lose and I will still watch and hope they win. I am just trying to explain why it's not as simple a matter as honest and straightforward football fans take it to be. I don't expect solutions or changes to the situations, I have to deal with my own dilemmas and part of that for me was moving to Scotland, but this forum is for discussing football stuff and as usual the Spurs board deals with different opinions in a civilised manner so I think it's important that views as diverse as @humanbeingincroydon and @KingHotspur should be aired and if possible each should understand each others position while not necessarily agreeing with it.
So quick question, which a few people need to answer: when have I ever said every obnoxious, entitled bonehead making England matches insufferable to watch is a Tory supporter? Underlining just how unpleasant this country has got with every booing of national anthems, jeering when opponents have the ball, shining laser pointers at opposition goalkeepers and making all manner of excuses doesn't make them Tories, although their behaviour sure as hell mimics the government's attitude to anything other their own wallets And I can't help but notice those using that straw argument ignore that I've been just as critical of the nauseating fawning from pundits, be it the BBC using the same bulletpoints - 1966, "they'll become legends", 55 years, "legends" etc - since the round of 16 draw (and their internal investigation proving they aren't biased, a sentence we've heard a lot out of the BBC since 2014...) while ITV's commentary the other night saying England fans deserve to be in the final due to the last sixteen months as if we're the only country to experience Covid was downright offensive It's like the fawning over Liverpool "deserving" to win the Premier League but on a national scale, with the entitlement of the fans and the press even more obnoxious
