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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    There's one very easy way to spot the difference between English, Scottish and Welsh values

    For one of them, rugby is their national sport
     
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  2. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    The English vote for nationalists and the Scottish vote for... different nationalists. <confused>
     
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  3. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The Dutch

    Also nicked a bit of land from the Colombians and called it Panama just so they could build a canal
     
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  4. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    And one difference is that English Nationalists are zenophobic and racist whereas Scottish Nationlist are neither and welcome immigrants English narionlists are anti Europe whereas Scottish Nationalists are for the majority pro Europe.. English Nationlists tend to be right wing while Scottish are Left. In fact they bare no relationship with each at all so to even mention them in the same sentence shows the usual English ignorance of the reality in Scotland. Which is not your fault as you really have to sift through the media crap to find the truth about Scotland and it's relationship with England. English supporters of the union live in fear of Scottish Independence and that's why there is so much propaganda on the subject to try to keep the populace ignorant of the facts.
     
    #16584
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  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say that they were the same. Claiming that they bear no relationship with each other at all is simply wrong, though.
    The rise of the SNP is based on the same thing that's given rise to the Tories in the North of England and UKIP throughout before that.
    People have been told that they're being ignored by those that they've voted for and that voting differently for a party with their interests at heart is the answer.
    The truth of those claims don't necessarily matter, apparently.
     
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  6. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    The rise of the SNP is a little more complex than the rise of the Tories in the North of England or UKIP. UKIP in particular is as I describe nothing to do with the SNP and stems from opposites rather than similarities. The Scots have known they are not listened to for centuries and this awareness was magnified in the 70s, it is propaganda and related fear that has kept them onside so far. The conversations following the referendum in 2014 has awakened more Scots to certain realities. Scotland is constantly told it is too weak too small and too poor to survive as an independent state. Increasingly Scots are no longer falling for this nonsense. The message that in fact the wealthiest and most successful countries in the world are in fact the smaller countries has been promoted by Independence supporters and the perception that Nicola Sturgeon has handled the pandemic more effectively than Boris has also changed views. Scotland has spent 300 years with an inferiority complex but now the advent of the internet has begun to change perceptions Young Scots are a very different breed to their grandparents. The majority of the English are Tories, that is not the case in Wales or Scotland.
     
    #16586
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  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The key difference in regards to the SNP is that, while UKIP are a single issue party, the SNP aren't

    The SNP are more comparable with Labour as there's a whole spectrum of factions under one roof, the most obvious being one side want independence now while the other wants gradual independence via devolution (and then there's those who want to burn England to the ground and salt the earth so Kula Shaker never grow again)

    As with Labour, however, the direction of the party can be backseated if the other factions are aggravated enough, for example Salmond was more in favour of gradual independence via devolution (even though he was leading the party during the independence vote) while Sturgeon is more about the clean break, and there's been fallings out among the membership due the membership being made up of left, centre-left, centre-right and Sawney Bean
     
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  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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  9. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    Where did you get the idea Salmond was in favour of gradual independence?

    People are members of the SNP largely because they support independence. The majority of the membership is actually far more radical than the top table who tend to follow a neo liberal agenda. So in that sense the SNP is a single issue party. What for example the BBC constantly distort and most of the English media joins in is that people are voting for policies when they vote in the referendum. Questions about various issues are irrelevant, for example what will Scotland do about this or that when it is independent are a complete red herring. The issue is should Scotland be independent and therefore decide these issues for it self. The SNP may not be in power in an Independent Scotland because right now many of it's member would change to new parties formed following an Independent Scotland. The current Labour Liberal and Tory parties would have to reinvent themselves for Scotland. Most of the current membership of the SNP are former Labour voters who would be looking for more radical policies than at present offered by the SNP.
    The SNP is playing a political game to appear as a centrist party and avoiding issues like the monarchy so as not to alienate potential support for independence. It's quite a complex picture.
     
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  10. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Compared to Sturgeon, who is all for a clean break and is pushing for it at every opportunity, Salmond did not have independence at the forefront of his agenda and was for a more gradual process

    It's also worth noting (at the hope of not Anglosplaining) that Salmond's rise in the SNP came from him being part of the '79 Group, who were all for a devolved assembly while the then-SNP top brass were mainly focused on not having an opinion on anything in case that might put prospective voters off *cough*Starmer*cough* and, crucially, during his first stint as SNP leader he positioned the party for the gradual devolution rather than the clean break
     
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  11. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Bang on Spurf.

    I moved up here roughly 8 years ago and the reality of the SNP compared to the perception I had from living down south in England is so different.
     
    #16591
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  12. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    Early contender for dumbass question of the day...
     
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  13. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    So it finally occurred to De Pfeffel that it's not a good look to have bastard offspring that he does acknowledge the existence of?
     
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  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for the BoD to comment...
     
    #16594
  15. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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  16. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant, but at the same time disturbingly accurate.
     
    #16596
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  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    The FBI and assorted local law enforcement have arrested a 28-year-old man for planning to shoot up a Walmart.
    Standard, everyday occurrence in Texas? Perhaps, but he seems rather confused. Here's a photo of some of his stuff:
    please log in to view this image


    Laptop, guns, ammo, some sort of anti-vax t-shirt and a variety of Nazi and white supremacist flags? Fine and expected.
    Also a Saudi flag and a translation of the Quran? What?! How do they go with the rest of it? Very odd.
    Really strange selection of reading material.
     
    #16597
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The cynic in me thinks he had the Quran there as a false flag, knowing Faux news would jump on that and ignore the far right and antivaxx paraphernalia
     
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  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    One of the other books is Revolt Against The Modern World by Julius Evola.
    Perhaps he read that and it's themes lead him from fascism to the way that Saudi society is run?
    Seems a really weird jump, but the guy's got a previous conviction for drug possession and he looks a bit methed up, so that might explain it.
     
    #16599
  20. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image
     
    #16600
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