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Off Topic Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football thread

Discussion in 'Watford' started by andytoprankin, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    No, my question is how many people can realistically use the excuse of soil conditions as a reason for not making a massive difference to global warming?
     
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  2. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    I'm not making the 'excuse' of soil conditions Andy. What I am saying is that there is no 'one size fits all' solution to this. It's also not helpfull if one part of the population is pointing the finger in an accusing manner at the other. I will say that every person here in the west is able to calculate their own Co2 footprint - there are enough tools for doing this - mine is very low due to not having a car, not going on holidays, cooking for several days at a time, only buying clothes when absolutely necessary and through the way we heat our home. My PC is also 10 years old and i don't use a mobile - we also recycle more or less everything. If my Co2 balance works out as being less than a vegetarian then I don't have much of a case to answer. I also buy local products and grow many of our vegetables, and fruit in the garden - , at the end of the day, I may reward myself with a locally slaughtered piece of lamb - and a cigarette afterwards ! Environmentalism is a noble goal but when it descends into fundamentalism and pointed fingers then all it does is to divide people and prevents the unity we need to actually grapple with these problems.
     
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  3. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone has a duty to make whatever cuts they can to their carbon footprint. Vegetarianism is an easy choice to make for nearly everyone, and it would make a massive difference to the planet.
     
    #4123
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  4. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Any accurate analysis shows that the largest rise in emissions has occurred in the last 30 years - even the most ambitious plans aim for a reduction to pre 1980s levels. So in order to look for solutions we should be looking at what has changed over those last 30 years rather than focussing on a practice which is many thousands of years old.
     
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  5. NZHorn

    NZHorn Well-Known Member

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    The big problem with any agricultural output is that soil fertility in the western world has declined by 50% in the last 30 years. Unless we change our agricultural practices and over reliance on chemical fertilisers we are heading for big problems. Some argue that that won't be a problem because the decline in biodiversity is a greater threat. Bees are in decline which will/is (depends who you talk to) reduce/reducing plant reproduction.
    I work in a university which does a lot of research in soil science and ecosystems. Colleagues are seriously worried about how climate change is dominating the debate when a triple whammy is heading our way.
     
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  6. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    Nothing about this government and its incompetence surprises me anymore - the MoD have spent £3.2billion on tanks that can't shoot whilst moving. It's bad enough that such weaponry is needed in the first place, but when it can't even do the job it was designed to do, what is the point?

    https://www.rt.com/uk/524681-uk-tanks-dont-shoot/
     
    #4126
  7. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    any sources other that RT? LOL Putin must be wetting himself if this is true...
     
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  8. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    The Sunday Times of 23rd May - unfortunately behind a paywall.
     
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  9. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think it’s a question of ‘this rather than that’ - a holistic approach, where all carbon producers are reanalysed, has to be the best approach. Travel, farming, factory pollutants, overfishing, etc. Individualism cannot control the debate any longer IMHO. Everybody has to do everything they can.
     
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  10. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Boris Johnson covered the renovation costs for his Downing Street flat "from his own pocket", one of his ministers has said.

    Trade Secretary Liz Truss told the BBC the work had been "fully declared".

    Cabinet Office Minister Lord True told the House of Lords on Friday that "any costs of wider refurbishment in this year have been met by the prime minister personally".

    Lord Geidt said that "the record shows no evidence that the prime minister had been informed by" former Conservative Party vice-chairman Lord Brownlow "that he had personally settled the total costs" for early works. There has been speculation that the final bill for works for the Downing Street flat came to as much as £200,000.

    The prime minister told health secretary Matt Hanccok he won’t face any further action, after Lord Geidt found he had breached the ministerial code when he didn’t declare a family firm, which he had a 20% stake in, won an NHS contract.

    Something seems very odd.
     
    #4130
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  11. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    The debate is also an ideological one in which the last 30 years have been characterized by the economics of selfishness and greed in which our fellows and environment are viewed primarily in terms of what they can do for us or give us. We give this a pretty word and call it globalization but the doctrine underpinning this is neo-liberal capitalist free marketeering - globalization is the new World religion and the market is the new god. To call the spread of this disease 'globalization' is like saying if Hitler had conquered the World he could have called it 'globalization' as well. What is needed is not just technological change (judged alone this changes nothing) but a central ideological attack on the idea that growth cannot be restrained or scaled back. We need to be able to realize that a post growth economy is possible, where what is now important is more equitable wealth distribution of what we have rather than continual growth. It is not within the nature of free market capitalism to recognize this need - so the changes we need are structural rather than technological. We need to recognize that the exploitation of the environment, and of our fellow man, go hand in hand. Without a central ideological attack on the central structures of Capitalism all other changes are peripheral. The changes we need cannot be left to the free market but can only be coordinated through a revolution in public ownership.
     
    #4131
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  12. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    Wholeheartedly agree, cologne. <ok>
    Although, I can’t believe that the selfish in this world would allow their control of ‘now’ to positively affect the future of the many, but it is what is necessary.

    I think I’ve said it before, but over a number of years, I have enjoyed reading and learning from the posts of you and Toby in particular, in terms of specifics within arguments I espouse.
     
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  13. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    That French travel ban has turned out to be a bit of a blessing...
    IMG_20210531_081646.jpg
     
    #4133
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  14. Markthehorn

    Markthehorn Well-Known Member

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    Oops..

    So much for being fully “British” then !
     
    #4134
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  15. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    <laugh><doh>
     
    #4135
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  16. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    On Saturday over here there were demonstrations over the use of regional languages. You have to go back to the Edict of Villers-Cotterêts (1539) when one language was imposed on everyone. My son-in-law was born in England but went to a Welch speaking school in Bangor. He can still speak it and has found that there are many similar patterns in Breton. Just seems a bit daft to me to try and stop something that people feel comfortable with.
     
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  17. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know Frenchie Breton is still the most spoken Celtic language - with many famous musicians having used it. Minority languages in Europe are protected by European Charter (by minority I mean indigenous languages). In Germany, Plattdeutsch (Low German), Frisian, Sorbian, Danish and Romany are all recognized as official minority languages and woe betide anyone trying to intefere with that - as long as they understand standard German that is enough. Are the French trying to standardize the Corsicans as well ?
     
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  18. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Yes Corsican as well. It is a strange language that not surprisingly has a heavy overlay of Italian. We were sat in a bar on the southern tip of the island listening to the locals in full flow. Very strange. Corsican music is also slightly odd. Over here on the mainland we can get the local Corsica TV station and one of their music programs can be a very sobering experience. Full of how oppressed they are seems to be the mainstay of their folk music. This is guesswork as I don't understand much of what they are singing about.
     
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  19. NZHorn

    NZHorn Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if I have shared this before.
    Language can be so political. I worked for a couple of seasons in Mallorca in the 80s. Most of the time I spoke with English tourists but, when I could, I escaped into the interior where I learnt some very basic Catalan as this is the language of the local people (not most of the tourism workers who came from other parts of Spain).
    A few years ago I visited Mallorca for the first time in decades. On my first day I went to a cafe first thing in the morning and ordered in Catalan. The cafe owner was not amused and spat the Spanish translation at me. Admittedly this was at the height of the Catalan independence push.
     
    #4139
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  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    We hired a gite on Corsica and on our arrival were met by the owners who showed us around, and gave us tips on the best places to buy essentials and where the decent restaurants were. We commented on the fact that Ajaccio had so much building work going on since our last visit, and were given a tirade of abuse about the Parisians who were buying everywhere up. Apart from the fact that prices were shooting through the roof making it difficult for people on the island to afford places to live, there was a very strong theme that there was also a political takeover going on. It has its own political parties quite different to the mainland, and quite a strong independence movement, but in many ways Paris leaves them alone these days and it is a lot more peaceful because of it.
     
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