You need to be more realistic. You know this won't happen so you are leaving yourself open for disappointment and then criticism of the management. Sissoko , Lamela , Sanchez and Lloris to go. A new CB and GK to come in. ( although if 10 Hag is going to play youngsters, then the CB pairing could be JT and Rodon with Foyth as the third option. Simples.
Yeah that’s kind of what I was going for, albeit with the upgrades at CB to partner Rodon and replacing Bergwijn with a new forward, though he seems to have had a torrid time of it so perhaps a little harsh to cast him off. One of the biggest problems we’ve had all season IMO is the fact that our attacking play when we’ve had possession for more than 5 seconds or so just seems to be completely unstructured. There’s no patterns of movement so the passing options aren’t there unless we very quickly launch it long over the top. The only attacking combination play we’ve seen with any regularity is Son/Kane and that’s not coached, that’s just their understanding. As such we’ve been utterly reliant on Tanguy or Lucas dropping deep, beating 2/3 players and hoping something happens next. Nearly all of our progressive play from deep once the opportunity to counter quickly has passed has been trying to carry the ball, not pass it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think any of our midfield combinations are perfect as the squad stands but with better coaching of the movement of the midfield and forwards I think we could alleviate a lot of the turgid football we’ve witnessed this season without somehow buying the second coming of Luka Modric.
What I would like to happen and what I think will actually happen are two different things and I’m not going to beat the club up for not doing what I want, though I will criticise them for not doing what is within reason. I’m fully aware the club can’t force someone to buy a player and that it’s difficult to force a player to move on (just look at Danny Rose’s situation the last few years as a case in point). So yeah I agree that everyone on my list won’t go, I think it’s likely that Lamela, Winks and Dele will go, we’ll likely try and shift Sissoko but I can’t see many takers. We’ll need to shift a CB too I think but again, hard to know which one of Dave, Toby and Dier is most marketable. I don’t see Lloris moving on this summer, I think we’ll try and sell Gazza because he’s going into the last year of his contract and will likely replace him as 3rd choice with another cheap HG keeper or one of the academy boys. Depends on what the manager fancies as to what backup we bring in though I think. Position isn’t a massive priority. I also definitely expect us to move for a RB as Aurier has never convinced and there’s already noises again about him leaving, and Doherty has been worse than any of us would have imagined. Realistic outgoings are one of the 3 CBs, Lamela, Winks, Dele. I think there’s a very strong possibility Foyth goes as his loan club have an option I believe and he’s been playing there a lot, and I think Gazza will want to go and we won’t oppose it. With the other ‘nice to sells’ it depends a lot more on finding buyers and how we plan to replace them. Selling players is way harder than buying them so realistically it’s going to be hard to shift some of them out.
The biggest issue for us, and this goes back at least a couple of seasons, is our midfield doesn't create space anymore In the period between 2015-17 it regularly opened teams up, be it Dembele driving through opponents, Eriksen finding the perfect pass or Dele finding a pocket of space to nip into, and not only did they thrive but it also allowed other players to, be it channels for Walker and Rose to run through or openings for Winks to pass through Ever since Dembele went into decline, though, it hasn't done this and instead we are reliant either on luck from hitting it long or individual moments of brilliance from Ndombele or Son or Lucas (or individual moments of non-brilliance from opposition players) as our midfield has somehow become too workmanlike to be creative and too mercurial to grind its way through games so we get the best of neither - and as a result there's no openings for Dele to nip into, no openings for Winks to pass through, etc etc
I'm not as positive about the first XI as you to be honest, I agree about CB and RB upgrades but I don't think either Ndombele or Lo Celso are good enough long term options for us. Both have shown flashes but by and large have done very little for us, so I'd be open to the club looking to sell those two to help generate some proper funds for a new playmaker. Our deadwood won't fetch too much and some will need replacing too, so to improve the first XI I think one or two "first teamers" also need to make way and they're two I'd absolutely lose zero sleep over should they go. I'd rather give Lucas a permanent shot at the number ten role, have either Bergwijn/ Bale (second loan) at RW and the new playmaker alongside Hojbjerg or Skipp. A lot also depends on if we're playing in Europe next season or not, if not we can absolutely trim a lot of fat, that can also be the case if we end up in the ECL as we'd likely play a heavily rotated side in that. Though if we're in EL (or by the faintest hopes, CL) we may need to get keep one or two around (unfortunately), as the squad will need to be utilised a bit more effectively in that. Though to be honest, so long as some of the obvious deadwood is gone (Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Dele etc), I'm happy to trust the new manager with what they want to do for the most part. I'd like to think they won't be as naive as Jose who I think genuinely felt the squad was in much better shape than he realised when he joined but if he feels he can raise the level of one or two with his style/ coaching/ tactics, namely Ndombele and Lo Celso, then I'm happy to trust him.
We’ve lost some of the players for sure. But I do think a lot of it is the movement ahead of them too. Watching us under Jose was so static and it didn’t look like the midfielders and forwards were being trained or instructed to find space in the way there were doing under Poch. So many times one of the FBs would progress the ball on the wing and there would be a gaping hole in the final 3rd where you’d expect an advanced midfielder to be open as an option. While I’m not expecting Højbjerg or Skippy to turn into Xavi and Iniesta overnight, they’re more than capable of progressing the ball to a 10 and forwards if the players and combinations are moving ahead of them. By and large I agree with this and that’s why I said I don’t think either of them are completely safe. Tanguy’s issue is lack of work rate and at this stage I’m not sure it’s ever going to change massively. We either set the side up to accommodate him in an advanced position and buy into that or we leaves, that’s up to the new manager. Even as a 10 we’ll have difficulties if he won’t press properly though, if that’s the style the new manager wants. With Gio the call is on his injury record. I think there’s a fine player in there if he ever gets a run of games at 10 when fit but realistically he has never been fully fit with us and had that run. Again it’s a call for the manager and medical staff to make as to if they think he’ll be right to get that run next season after (hopefully) a full pre-season. I think Tanguy is the easier call to make for a new manager. We’re not going to buy a new 10 unless one or both of them goes because of the money involved IMO because selling Lamela isn’t going to raise enough money.
We have to carefully consider how much “dead wood” we can get rid of in 1 window. We’ve had transfer windows where we’ve signed tonnes of players, and seen how difficult it is to implement them. Even if we could sell loads because there was a demand and Levy was even willing to take a bit less, there’s an argument that too many in 1 go could have even more of a negative effect on the squad. Whilst I agree that many have under performed and the style of football has been horrific, they do know how one another play. The integration of 3 or 4 plus a new coach could be quite surprising. In addition, there’s another argument that another coach will get more out of the 9 players we’ve seen arrive under Jose. I also think sometimes the camaraderie element also gets forgotten, which would also definitely have an impact. They are humans! The exodus needs to be done over 2-3 windows, IMO. We need to prioritise who the first batch are that need to go, as they are first XI positions we must strengthen immediately, and get those sales lined up. I don’t think that anyone would disagree that RB and CB are problem areas, as well as DM needing a bit of work too. Therefore, the likes of Aurier or Doherty (the latter I think needs more time and better coaching), Dier/Sanchez and Sissoko are likely to be high up the list. In terms of “regulars”, the only other I’d be considering at this stage would be Lamela due to injuries. In addition, the “has beens” like Rose need axing. - irrelevant as he never plays anyway. If we add some proper quality first team contenders in those positions (3 or 4 players) we could then look at the next group later down the line. I’ve seen some players like Lucas and Lloris mentioned as prime culling material, but for me they are way down the list at this stage. I just think it’s impossible to get rid of 8+ players, especially how with how Levy does his dealings over the window, as well as there being the euro’s to consider.
I think you have the right sentiment Roo, but in reality given the shocking decline of so many players plus the general global downturn, I don't think we'll much be able to prioritise who is moved on. It will all come down to which players we receive acceptable bids for and which we do not. Using that as a yardstick, we are far likelier to find suitors for the likes of Lloris, Lamela and Bergwijn than we are for the likes of Sissoko or Doherty, even though the latter two are far higher up the 'for sale' list. Beggars can't be choosers and if the new manager wants money to bring in their own players but hopes to get it without selling Kane/Son, I can see us saddled with a fair bit of serious deadwood come next season and, moving forward, we will see quite a few players left out of squads and running down their contracts a la Danny Rose.
I just mean that Spurs are rumoured to be considering managers just because they’re available rather than actually wanting them for their skill.
The thing is the losses go someway to explaining not just why our midfield was so static under the ubermensch, but also why we stopped being able to control midfield in games in the last year of Poch's reign: Dembele being unable to create space led to Eriksen getting less of the ball, Dele not having pockets to run into and Winks no longer having time or space to pick his passes, and this wasn't rectified by deploying Sissoko in a similar role because while he had the physicality to bust through opposition lines he had neither the control or passing to bring an Eriksen or a Dele into play, which is why the Air raid tactics were adopted in 2018-19 to compensate for it Ndombele was supposed to fix this, but the combination of THAT BASTARD DIAMOND coupled with the lack of a DM being signed meant we still weren't controlling midfield, at which point Poch tried to brute force it by going back to 4231 without similar personnel to what made the system work in the first place - and then the ubermensch came in and did not address this issue at all, as we continued a variation on Air Raid to get the ball to Harry or Sonny which was forever immortalised by Dele's comment in All Or Nothing ("Just ****ing hitting it long and defending"), but while Poch at least tried to regain midfield control and failed to do so due to the aforementioned formation of which we do not speak, the ubermench was happy to just surrender midfield and try to grind out results even though it was abundantly clear that wasn't working last December when we started dropping points entirely because of this approach And this is the thing with Mason, he's effectively here to get the ubermensch stink off of the team and get them comfortable with the idea of playing football for a few games so they're in a better frame of mind for whenever NEW MANAGER arrives, because having them play without fear of being thrown under the bus for the manager's tactical mistakes and having a little bit more freedom on the pitch is what they need at this exact moment in time, and if they actually do have a new manager to look forward to with a couple of games remaining that's even better
In normal circumstances I make you right, mate. My general theory is that a club should look to sign 2-3 players (excluding any young prospects) and sell around 3-4 per season. It keeps the squad fresh and allows for the possibility for academy players to break through too, because if just one academy player gets sufficient chances in a season, that levels out the "2-3 in 3-4 out" ratio, if you see what I mean? Though for Spurs, we haven't sold anywhere near enough in recent seasons to just only sell 3-4 this coming summer. We've kept on to too many in recent seasons that some have barely played, some haven't been registered for some or all comps and some have had to leave on loan. We have a huge squad right now and this being an unusual circumstance means that around 6-7 or so (at least) need shipping out, especially if we end up without European football or just the ECL. The new manager will also surely want to bring in a few of their own and to do that, we'll need to sell a bunch to accommodate them. I think at least 6, possibly 8, ideally 9-10 need to go. It's a crazy number, I'm fully aware of that but it's a crazy position we're in at the moment with just so many poor and unneeded players.
I'm not sure we are to be honest. Nagelsmann seemed our first choice but when Bayern became interested we stood no chance. He's just become the most expensive manager fee-wise as well I think so the fact we were interested I think shows that the buyout fee wasn't the deciding factor. The next on the list are seemingly Rodgers, ten Hag and Potter. Rodgers only signed a new deal in 2019 and I think Potter has a few years too, it's just a little convenient that if ten Hag has become our primary candidate now that his deal also expires in 12 months. Ideally it'll be good to save as much as we can on a fee for a manager too as we'll be needing every penny for transfers this summer.
On the other hand, Poch quite conveniently became our primary candidate due to a combination of Man Utd hiring van Galling and Poch falling out with the Southampton board and wanting to leave
I don’t disagree, but this brings about another problem, IMO. Selling the ones we don’t need to get rid of straight away necessarily ie Lloris, means that we still may have the proper dead wood, and we also face the risk of the incoming players being worse than the ones we get offers for. So a situation where we still have the dead wood, and a gamble on those coming in. Just when you think it can’t get much worse.
all very true, bud. the potential lack of European football is certainly something else that throws a spanner in the works. I don’t disagree on the numbers overall that need to go, I just don’t think it’s possible. It’s a monumental job that’ll need a change in how we go about business. this is why I think we may have to do it consistently over a few windows. The lack of activity in both directions over the last few years really has compounded, hasn’t it? such a mess.
The lack of European football or being in the ECL may make it 'easier' to sell as the manager won't require such a large squad and I reckon Levy would want to relieve pressure on the books as he won't have European revenue helping to cover costs of wages to so many players but on the flip side it'll make it tougher to buy the right players as the pool will decrease due to players not being interested in playing for a club not in European competition. Doing it consistently over windows is in theory the right and usual thing but we're in an unusual circumstance of having too much dross to just only move on a few at time. Club has to grow a pair and not cling on so much to so many of these deadbeats that its been doing for the last couple years. Yep, been an utter mess. It's why I already feel quite sorry for whoever does come in, I just hope they're not as naive to our issues as Jose was. He seemed genuinely happy and excited when he took over, though I think within a few months he realised just why Poch was sacked.
It's a ground up rebuild, which is why we need a manager who is going to commit to 5 years of rebuilding. Potter is the man to do this, which is why we'll end up with Allegri.
Yeah, Potter or ten Hag are probably best for a rebuild I'd say. Ten Hag could ideally bring that Ajax philosophy with him to the club too, both on and off the pitch. I think he's who we'll go for if reports are to be believed, whether he'll say yes or not is another thing.
Let’s just face it, if we’re about to have an ‘official meeting’ with him, then the informal discussions have already happened. Wouldn’t be bothering if mutual interest wasn’t already established. Not saying it’s definitely gonna happen but it’s a clearly promising sign. Ajax play good football and I admire their work with young players. My concern with him is that imports from the Dutch league, especially managers, haven’t often worked in the PL. I’d be happy with Ten Hag though. A more ambitious choice than Potter and easier to get than Rodgers or Nagelsmann, who I think were people’s top choices outside of the very top tier of managers out there.
Yeah I'd be happy with him. There's pros and cons to just about all our potential candidates at the moment but he probably ticks a few more pros than cons which is a plus point. Agree, he seems the frontrunner for fans now that Nagelsmann is a no go and Rodgers was realistically never gonna leave the good thing he's got going at the moment with Leicester. There aren't really too many top tier managers though if truth be told these days anyway, most of the ones in demand or being highly praised are part of this new wave of young, progressive and attack minded coaches, most of whom haven't actually won much (if at all so far) but are clearly seen as the future.
