Let me start by saying, I’m not anti training. The point I thought I was making to Tobes is that training won’t make you an effective manager, it’s a single element of a wider set of requirements. Tobes then went on to mention employment laws, diversity in the workplace etc. as examples. Of course you need to understand the process in place for your own organisation and training is a way to understand those processes. The conversation started on the back of Luv saying (in summary) he doesn’t like his colleagues. No training in the world is going to change that!! You’ve now admitted that you had to change your approach, which training alone wouldn’t have helped. Sometimes good old common sense is all you need?
I think all new managers should receive management training in basic techniques of dealing with interpersonal relations . I and lots of managers i had definitely could have done with some .
Just a personal opinion, nowt more, every manager needs basic understanding of employment law, even if it's only basic ACAS training. Also if your company involves vehicles, I would expect any fleet management to have any basic training around motoring laws, weight limits, speed limits for each class/weight of vehicle. I'd also expect H&S to a level that is relevant to your nature of business. Additional courses on performance and disciplinary, including absence ie sickness etc. Get any of this stuff wrong and it can end in tribunals and costly bills. We all get it wrong at times, those times can be kept to a minimum if the right training is in place. I could go on but I can tell I'm boring you all now, so I'll shut up.
I don't think it's all or nothing. I never said training alone will help. You need to have certain attributes to make you not just a good manager but a good leader, but those aren't enough. Just because someone's damned good at their job doesn't necessarily mean when they move up through the ranks they'll make a good manager. What happened in my experience had nothing to do with common sense. In fact if common sense was used, the problem wouldn't have existed in the first place. There is a skill to people management, but this has been affected by employment law and if you're not guided on it, you can fall foul of it. Like I said I've seen plenty fall foul of it, many who were otherwise very good leaders. Simply because nobody gave them any professional development in preparation for their role. Asides of that I think there are far more merits in rising up through the ranks. I've done it myself so there's no arguments from me there.
I’m assuming that as you’ve not been sacked yet, you do somehow manage tolerance without the training!
This isn’t how the conversation started and you’ve now added a whole new set of variables into the mix. I’ll leave it there and chalk it up as a Tobes win. If you genuinely think that managers need to have a great understanding of employment law rather than a set of values, then I’m glad I’m soon to be retired. I certainly don’t need to be trained to know that bullying, treating others with dignity and respect, ignorance of equality and diversity have no place in my work environment.
Never been sacked and can be tolerant but I certainly wish I'd have had some training all those years back.
But the point that seems to keep being missed is that training alone won’t address those issues. Some of the worst managers I’ve ever come across have had opportunities to complete a very extensive set of management training courses.
Training would enhance and help a good manager it may even improve a bad one, there is nothing negative about a structured course to bring continuity. It won't solve everything but it will certainly help.
Anyone else done the Prince 2 course? I did it, never looked at it again after the course. The books are upstairs somewhere. That's all the 'training' I've ever had. I'm operations and commercial anyway, I don't know much about employment law and don't need to, beyond common sense, we've got an HR department for that. Everything else is just by learning what's required as you go along and gain more experience, especially people management. You can't be taught that anyway, bar being taught how to be a multi sound bite spouting knobhead.
I’ve done a prince 2 as a project manager, as well as countless internal and external training courses over the years. I probably attend 4-6 training courses annually. I do work for a global organisation with it seems, an unlimited training budget. Whilst I do agree that training provides a greater level of understanding, for me it’s how you apply it. What’s the old saying “you can lead a horse to water”
