1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    17,589
    Likes Received:
    8,295
    you may we’ll be right about Doherty, but it’s too early to tell, IMO. He does stand the best chance of coming good though, as he has premier league experience. From memory, he can cross a ball. He just can’t do it for us! <laugh> I think it’s all about mentality too, but confidence in particular. In fact, I reckon there’s multiple players in our squad who have had their confidence shattered by Mourinho.
    Look at all of the mistakes the defence make week after week. They’re frightened. One or two mistakes has escalated into a nightmare they can’t escape from each week.
    I also think there’s an element of “I’m not going to perform for you because you’ve been a **** to my mate” from a few players. It’s well known that Dier and Dele are best mates, so is there an element of Dier under performing due to the way Dele’s been left out of the side? There’s definitely the possibility of animosity and division within the dressing room.

    in terms of the squad, I always felt that we had a decent first XI in recent years, but we were terrible when we had to make changes. - notable cup games where we’d make 5 or 6 wholesale changes and we were atrocious. but now, I feel we’re the most balanced we’ve been in a long time, and the depth generally has better quality overall. Yes we could do with a CB, but for me, it’s mourinho’s poor use of what he’s got at his disposal that’s the problem, which includes multiple signings over the last year. And we’re not a top 6 team because of this. <ok>
     
    #301
    PowerSpurs and Citizen Kane. like this.
  2. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    12,700
    Likes Received:
    8,707
    Bring in Harry R til the end of season. Put some fun back in the season
     
    #302
    maggie blanchflower likes this.
  3. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,068
    Likes Received:
    48,302
    He's never been as good a crosser as Trippier though, so whilst he may be able to cross better than he is now, it still likely won't be good enough in the long run.

    There's a lot I'll blame Jose for but I don't think he's overly affected Doherty. Doherty's had a decent amount of games, hasn't really been singled out for criticism by Jose and as we look at Reguilon on the other side, it's not as if Jose's told the FBs they can't go forward (which we all believe is/ was a strength of Doherty's). He just hasn't adapted anywhere near well enough here at Spurs and for me, it's a risk to persist with him. For as much as I've slated Aurier in the past he's currently much better and whilst we need improvement at RB, I'd rather sell Doherty than Aurier to help make space and fund a move for the replacement.

    As for the team and squad. I think from 2015 to 2018 we had a very good first XI but we lacked the depth behind it to help get us over the line at times. Since then we've grown the squad but it's seemingly come at the expense of first XI quality, there's still enough to get top six, possibly even top four but we're not as strong as we were during that 15-18 era, even if we are bigger. I definitely agree Jose's squad management has been a disaster though and that's why a number of good players have suffered, especially in recent weeks because frankly they're spent and with that, results and performances have gone along with it.
     
    #303
  4. The Changing Man

    The Changing Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    11,115
    Likes Received:
    10,379
    To be fair I think Sherwood would do a better job with these players than Jose is and if that isn't the most damning indictment of his management then I don't know know what is.
     
    #304
    humanbeingincroydon likes this.
  5. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,568
    Likes Received:
    23,838
    I make no bones, I thought he was the wrong appointment and I didn't want him for that reason...not because I don't like him (which I don't).

    I went to his first few games and got behind the boys amd wanted to believe that I was wrong...but by the end of 2019, he was already testing my patience with piss poor squad management and talking about throwing games because of injuries and fixture congestion. He got out of jail with the Covid delay and sneaked EL qualification but this season, he's worse than ever

    We have weaknesses but I have no doubt that a more progressive manager would be getting far better results than Mourinho has and will do. He should go tonight and we can get in a temporary manager or let Sacramento have a go. I fail to see how it can get any worse and a 'new manager bounce' might just lead to us pulling off a shock or two.

    With Mourinho we're ****ed and that wasn't always a given for me....you can check my comments on his appointment.
     
    #305
    remembercolinlee likes this.
  6. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    11,397
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    This hits the nail on the head, for me. We can highlight defensive screw-ups as much as we like - and so we should - but the common denominator of our 6 defeats in the last 11 games has been very, very simple: the opposition has wanted it more than we did. In fact, this was also the case in the draws against Wolves and Fulham. Which means that aside from beating 2 newly promoted sides and the team at the bottom of the league, we have done nothing of note in the league since the NLD on Dec 6th. If anything, the defeat at Anfield probably goes down as our best performance over 90mins in that 13 game sequence.

    And that boils down to players not believing in themselves, not believing in the system and not knowing what to do to fix it.

    Other posters have spoken in recent weeks about senior players going to Levy and saying "It's him or me", as they supposedly did under AVB and Sherwood. But here's the thing: how many of our senior players have accomplished nearly enough in their careers to stand up to the Special One, more so that Levy would actually take them seriously?

    Maureen is an expert gaslighter. He's been doing it since his second Chelsea stint - constantly reminding everyone as often as possible just how much he has accomplished throughout his career. If you're someone like Sanchez, Dier, Alli, or even Son for that matter...eventually that chips away at you - because by contrast you have accomplished sweet FA compared to him - and you start blaming yourself for the team's demise. And then when the manager comes out after yet another defeat and speaks about how good the current top 6 are and how difficult it will be to overhaul them, you start to believe it. Because what do you know? You're Matt Doherty for feck's sake! You were playing for Bohemians of Dublin when the man saying this was winning Serie A and the CL with Inter Milan! What the feck do you know?

    He is a piss-poor motivator, piss-poor tactician, piss-poor in-game manager but he has a "winning mentality"...and that very mentality is grinding what is left of our team's talent and confidence into dust.
     
    #306

  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,727
    Likes Received:
    30,581
    If either Harry Kane or Son Heung-min said that, Levy would swing the axe so hard he would also happen to sack the entire staff of Chick King because they were in range

    There's an outside chance that would also be the case if Erik Lamela said that, because Levy doesn't want to consider a reality where Erik Lamela is angry with him
     
    #307
  8. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    11,397
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    The Daniel Levy I know is actually far more likely to be thinking about funding the rebuild by selling one or both of them, in light of a complete lack of matchday revenue for an entire year.

    They both played today with the demeanour of players who are starting to give up tbh. Son STILL hasn't signed the new contract he was supposedly ready to sign back in December. The signs aren't great.
     
    #308
  9. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    25,247
    Likes Received:
    15,388
    It' s hard to argue with this. I think there is a major difference between being a managerial success over many years at the same club and what so many modern managers do ie spend 2 or 3 seasons at a club with a lucrative contract then move on to pastures new as the wheels start to wobble. Of course this has been encouraged by the clubs as they all look for instant success and maybe that long term model just doesn't work anymore with wealthy players and even wealthier agents continuing the stir up. Whatever the reason you cannot expect the loyalty of the hard screwed fans (In terms of what they are expected to pay to see their team) Play hard ball with the team then that applies to the manager too. Pochettino was the nearest we came in recent years to a long term solution and just as soon as there was a blip he was gone. It's a shame because PSG will now benefit from the experience he gained with us. I hope the club are grooming Ledley for a future management role.
     
    #309
  10. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,727
    Likes Received:
    30,581
    I can't think of any reason why Harry Kane would look like he wasn't interested in playing for a manager who happened to slag him off in the press after the Wolfsberger match...
     
    #310
  11. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    11,397
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    You make a compelling point Spurf but tbh I think it's swings and roundabouts. There are just as many examples of clubs who have committed to a long-term project and it hasn't paid off, usually because said long-term manager took that team as far as he could years ago but no-one is ruthless enough to admit it. Wenger is the most obvious example of this. I would argue that Simone - relative to the collapse of Real and Barca and the amount of net spend he's given - took Atletico as far as he could quite a few years ago. Hodgson is another example. Chris Wilder another. Some are starting to say the same about Nuno Santo.

    For me, the key to success is implementing a clear, coherent vision from academy level all the way up, guided by a DOF who 'gets' the club's ideology, who only buys players if the coaching staff agrees, and who - together with the senior coach - takes all footballing decisions away from the chairman and board.
     
    #311
    Dier Hard likes this.
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,727
    Likes Received:
    30,581
    Anyone got a butterfly net?
     
    #312
  13. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    11,397
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    As I said above, this is called gaslighting.
     
    #313
    Roo likes this.
  14. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17,568
    Likes Received:
    23,838
    If Levy's taken in by this ****, he wants attaching to the mains electricity.
     
    #314
    Roo likes this.
  15. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,727
    Likes Received:
    30,581
    There's a place for him in the Tory cabinet with skills like that

    ...actually, that could work, as it'd save us paying compo
     
    #315
  16. BajanSpur

    BajanSpur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    609
    Common 4 by 4 meter time...
    Ah! one, two and three and four...

    :emoticon-0159-musicDoop do-dah-do... doop dah,

    There may be trouble ahead,
    But while there's music and moonlight,
    And love and romance,
    Let's face the music and dance.
    Before the fiddlers have fled,
    Before they ask us to pay the bill,
    And while we still have that chance,
    Let's face the music and dance.
    So !...
    There may be teardrops to shed,
    So while there's music and moonlight,
    And love and romance,
    Let's face the music and dance
    ...
    Let's face the music and dance :emoticon-0159-music

    Thank you! Thank you...
    I thank you. :emoticon-0139-bow:

    Now! where did I put my Rum.
     
    #316
  17. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    25,606
    Likes Received:
    27,539
    As for Doherty, he played at Wolves in a formation which had both fullbacks as wingbacks, encouraged to go forward to receive diagonal balls from Coady and cross for an out and out centre forward in Jimenez. Neves would also look to play the ball wide for the full backs. He was a focal point of the team.

    Spurs don’t play in the same way and as a more traditional fullback, he looks ordinary.
     
    #317
    O.Spurcat likes this.
  18. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,542
    Likes Received:
    3,595
    My wife died today..........and so did Spurs.
     
    #318
  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,265
    Likes Received:
    55,752
    Sorry for your loss, Smithy.
     
    #319
    bigsmithy9 likes this.
  20. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    25,606
    Likes Received:
    27,539
    Sorry for your loss.
     
    #320
    bigsmithy9 likes this.

Share This Page