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Another Weekend

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by Doc, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Weekender.jpg

    We have discussed our U23s quite a lot recently and questions like what is the point, is it a business and way of getting more cash, is a dodge to beat the FFFP rules and the answer is YES to all 3 questions.

    The main idea and most sensible idea is to bring in young kids and coach and develop them throughout their adolescence and teens and put them into the first team, simply because it will save the club a transfer fee to buy a player. So Leeds have done that very successfully in the past as can be seen by the work Wilkinson and Hart did. They really invented the blueprint for the academy system in this country and before long we had a conveyor belt of talent that went on to represent the first team and then sold on to many Premier League/Div 1 clubs and also Internationals.

    We all know the history of Ridsdale and the way Bates raped the academy and TA and mothballed most of the facilities including health, education, housekeeping etc. Lots of redundancies in tutors, medics, ground-staff, coaches etc. Bates even tried charging parents for coaching their kids!!, we lost our coaches who went on to head up the new Man City Academy that has done so well recently, we also lost our main coach/scout for West Yorkshire schools and boys clubs. He went to man City too and took with him all he best kids from York, Leeds and Bradford etc. We ended up with a few kids like Ben Parker and Aidy White and many more of the same ilk who withered away in lower league and non league teams. we saw the odd bloom in kids like Mowatt, Taylor, Delph & Howson and quite a few more, basically sold them all and there has been a few but bates needed to make it look like the club had made a profit every season so at least one of the best kids were sold.

    Radz and Orta have started to rebuild and in the first years with money tight Orta concentrated on potential talent from around Europe and brought in kids like Sarkic, Diaz, Halme, Struijk, Haughland, Kun and quite a few more.Kun is still with us but in Spain on loan but doing well and scoring goals as a striker and creating goals as No10. Halme was sold because he wanted to play first team on a regular basis, Nik Haughland is still with us in the U18s as a striker or as a winger and was on the U23s bench again today.

    We also have some kids who's parents moved to Leeds so their lad could get a trial at Leeds. Kids like Nohan Kenneh who I believe will captain the Leeds first team and probably England one day. He is only 17 but played for England at every youth level so far and was MoM today for the 23s. We have quite a bunch of hardworking kids all through the Academy and Leeds won nearly everything at every age level recently from Under 7s up. Things are now starting to jell and yesterday a kid left Liverpool to sign for Leeds U18s, and this Summer a major investment in 4 of the most sought after talents in Europe when we paid a fee for Crysencio Summerville a flying tricky right winger from PSV. Cody Drameh left Fulham to join us and he for me is now ready to be understudy for Ayling at RB, he is brilliant every time I see him. sam greenwood and Joe Gelhardt are the best young strikers in England are regular England players. They are both prolific and Gelhardt for me is the closes I have seen to Wayne Rooney in build, style and skills.

    So as we have many good players we have to ask the sensible question about how many will fail in their careers. We all know players who were supposed to be brilliant (My own brother at Leeds, Sheff Utd, Blackburn) Then they drop out or fail. Last Summer the club made a healthy return on a few kids who we sold off and we made £31m in overall player sales in the Summer (No we get it spread over an agreed period) but in there was players like Ekuban, The Jap, and more who all made a profit and yes we still had some dead wood but this about academy kids. So who will make it to be a top pro, who will make it to Mowatt level and who will make it to Wilks level and the rest are lower league?

    Right now we have some exceptional talent at CB in Casey and Cresswell with both being better than Halme for example. Cresswell is just 18 and Casey 20, not forgetting Struijk who is also 20 so we have these 3 behind 3 CBs in Cooper, Llorente and Koch which is too many, so I can see changes in the Summer. Will Cooper be part of it? will Llorente move to DM? that would then accommodate them. But I fear Casey will probably be sold simply because he may feel he is not going to break through?

    All 4 of the Summer signings are good enough for our first team squad right now. Drameh must be the 2nd best RWB in the club, Greenwood and Gelhardt can do a job at 10 8 or 9 and I hope they both get made first team squad members full time next season. If not I am betting Greenwood will want to be off. Summerville is yet another winger but skill, pace, end product and fight and has played first team football in Holland at 16yo and been there until we signed him in the Summer.

    we have an outstanding left sided player called Niall Huggins who played in 3 positions on his debut for the first team last week. LWB already sees him as a better defender, more skilful and tricky flying winger than Alioski and for me when in trouble I would pick him at LB way ahead of Alioski. If we sign a top LB in the Summer Huggins must be his stand in.

    Jenkins, McCarron, McKinstrey, Allen, these 4 are all really promising midfielders.

    Shackelton, Gotts, McCalmont, Bogusz, Hosannah, Davies, Stevens, these players maybe surplus to requirements this Summer?

    Caprile, Skerry and Van De Heuvel are 3 keepers behind Meslier

    So how do the club view progress because not all of these kids will play for Leeds Utd and we have a bunch of U18s who are pushing the 23s, as we saw today with half of the team being u18 players and the other half being U18 last season replacing the 23s we sold or released.

    So yes I agree we can make a few quid for finding and developing talent, but when you cannot use them you also must give them a chance to fulfill their ambitions elsewhere. But in the Premier League any kids we play in the first team need to be really really very good. I think Shacks tonight gets one of his final chances to prove he belongs next season. Davies will probably be on the bench tonight also but I see him going backwards. If in the unlikely event that we get relegated the U23s would come into their own replacing players we were forced to sell, so suppose that's one way to view it but in reality we have an excess of talent waiting
     
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  2. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    The likes of Man City (eg Jack Harrison) Chelsea (eg Abraham, Mount) etc constantly have numerous players loaned out. If at the end of the loan spell they’re still deemed not good enough for their parent club they’re either sold for millions or loaned out again - sometimes for years. Sometimes they come back having improved enough for inclusion in the first team squad.

    That’s what Leeds should do. Tie them all down to long contracts and if they’re not ready for Leeds loan them out. It’s better than selling the likes of Davis, Casey etc now for a small fraction of their potential future value.

    Hopefully that’s how we’ll be operating from now on anyway.

    The only ones who leave will be the ones who refuse the long contract option.

    Either way it’s profitable and will save money in transfer fees.
     
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  3. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Going to state this publicly now, just to embarrass you. :D

    This is a crackin' article. One of very many you've written. I have yet to find a NewsNow clickbait article that comes in any way close in style, content & accuracy. You have a talent & can provide accurate detail for the masses who use NN. You use fresh material, rather than copy from another clickbait article that was probably a copy of another clickbait article, like everyone else. So why not? Might make a few bob too & can buy me lots of beer.

    Anyone else agree? Help me, he's a bit of a shy guy. :D
     
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  4. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The third question I didnt answer because that would be a whole new article by itself. Simply because any costa for the academy are deducted from the actual turnover numbers that are the basis for the FFFP rules so any kid we buy, anything we do to TA becomes good news against FFFP rules. So doing that in conjunction with overseas loans etc ..... Orta rubs his hands together
     
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  5. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Blushing

    :emoticon-0128-hi:
     
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  6. Gessa

    Gessa Well-Known Member

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    Agree, it was a lesser place when he took his sabbatical.
     
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  7. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Think last night we saw some of the problems with how and when you introduce kids into the first team. Shackelton was given the poisoned chalice of replacing Phillips, a couple of bright spots and lots of energy but basically nowhere near good enough as we had no control in the middle. Neto, Neves and Traore ran amok and in the end thats what hurt us-even though our defence was solid all night.shacks has played well last season in parts but where does he fit? He cannot do the DM role, he id ok at RB but he is now behind Drameh in my view will he be able to do the Klich No8 role because if he cant then he will be leaving in the Summer because there is a long line behind him.

    We saw last night that we had problems with numbers 4, 8, 10 and 11. We assume Klich and Harrison will be fine and we have cover for Harrison, but 4, 8 and 10 will need improving in the Summer, so will it be 3 new players coming in.
     
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  8. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    I’d like to see the entire loan system revamped. There should be a cap of how many you’re allowed in a squad, some of this talent should be filtering through in the lower leagues
     
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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  9. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The season before last Chelsea had 57 players out on loan! And we have had a few if them recently too. But how is what Chelsea do fair as remember they still have an academy and U23s, U18s etc but still have 50 odd players surplus to requirements. They have fewer this season but still the highest number of players loaned out. Many of these players are earning big wages but dont kill themselves for their adopted club, remember the fiasco we had with the so called game changer midfielder we had who managed to get few minutes all season, waste of money he has big wage a flash car and lifestyle but I refuse to even mention his name, forgotten, like his career
     
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  10. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Exactly this kind of thing, make each squad limited to a strict set amount. Some of those players should have been signed by lower league teams. If they develop that lower league team can cash in.

    They shouldn’t call the u23s that either, it’s just a reserve team. Go back to U15s U18s U21s and make it exactly that. Call the U23s “Reserve” and that’s where your coming back to fitness and reserve players play. Then set size limits on each squad, your first team and reserve squad combined shouldn’t need to exceed 50 players.
     
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  11. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Or, more simply, limit the number of loans in & out to 3 each.
     
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  12. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    We seemed to play a midfield pair (shaks & klich) last night Doc, so no one took on the Phillips role as such. It worked to an extent as we would have kept a clean sheet without an unbelievable slice of bad luck. However it did leave space between the back four and the midfield which Wolves exploited to get shots away, including the one for the goal.

    Overall though you've correctly identified the problem areas, although it's difficult to be too critical given we should have won the game. Klich for me is the one where if we had a massive upgrade we'd probably get the most benefit from. That's assuming Rodrigo comes back in and Tyler reverts back to being a bench player. Shaks is a good utility player with time on his side so I'd persevere for another season at least with him. Harrison has seemed out of sorts the last 2 games so hopefully just a blip or he may have an issue we don't know about.

    It seems we're always coming back to the same conclusions... a new left back and a No'8 upgrade are the priorities. Cover for Phillips will have to come from within the club as you can't replace him like for like without blowing a huge whole in the transfer budget. I know you've mentioned one player who can play No'4 & No'8 but I'd prefer us to concentrate on getting the right player for the attacking 8 role as he needs to be damn good.

    What we must do though is keep clear pathways for the young players to come through and not overstock on senior pros who are not gauranteed starters.
     
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  13. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    And no loans between clubs in the same division <ok>

    Also, I'm not happy about the number of loans clubs can have from a higher division. We took advantage last season with White, Costa & Harrison all from PL clubs (although White wasn't a PL player), Villa did the same the season before and also it nearly worked for Derby. Just doesn't seem a level playing field but then when has football ever been fair since the PL riches slanted everything.
     
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  14. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Jammy in most of his post, but I would just caution the view about Shacks being kept for another season as a utility bench player. I would just remind everyone that out on loan you have Robbie Gotts giving MoM performances for Salford playing in a 2 behind a striker. Alfie McCalmont, Bogusz so these 3 will any of them fit back in? There is also Hosannah who I love but cannot see him being kept on somehow when he comes back and the same for Edmondson and Stevens
     
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  15. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    A radical plan for loan players would be for every club to take one player from a lower league club and coach them and improve them. Then send them back to benefit their club. Obviously that would mean that any Prem club loaning out their own players would be to lower leagues but could also be done on an exachnge type system. So Leeds take on a player with potential for one season from say Bradford and replace that player with a like for like Leeds player who is obviously an upgrade on the player they send to Leeds. Bradfors get the benefit if a Leeds player and the Leeds player gets the benfit of regular league games and the Bradford player gets a season of high end coaching which benefits him and his club. Helps out lower leagues?
     
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  16. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Big game tonight Fulham v Sheff U.

    We're still well clear of the bottom 3 but it would be nice to see The Cottagers dropping points.

    Don't forget we still have that difficult run of fixtures to come and play Fulham away fairly soon.
     
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  17. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Just thought I'd add my own thanks to the cacophony of praise heaped upon our mild mannered weekend debate author ' Doc '

    Many thanks Doc...your weekenders are now firmly established and as well as being a must read provide us with many great debating points <ok>

    <applause><applause><applause>
     
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  18. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    We have plenty of cover for Phillips.

    Koch has played that role for Germany.

    Llorente has played that role for Spain.

    Forshaw was the go to player for that role before his injury.

    We have two international class replacements and Forshaw but non are available at the moment. Its a shame the press never really mention the injury issues we have suffered in one area this season. Liverpool have a few CB's out and we all have to feel sorry for them.
     
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  19. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    I see Football Focus still ticking boxes.

    2 black pundits women interviewers womens football round up and LGBGT football fans

    switching off as I can see only a few minutes of actual football the rest is a reeducation lesson
     
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  20. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Exactamundo <ok>

    It's other positions we need upgrades and they need to be top quality otherwise don't bother.
     
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