You may think so, many others disagree for very valid reasons. You are just going to have to live with that
When did the league go stale and become fresh again? No doubt you'd say between 1969 and SAF's first title. So now(according to you)Shankly's,Paisley's and Kenny's achievements mean nothing.
Now you're just contradicting yourself Dave. You correctly state that it's impossible to prove which manager is the greatest when there are so many active managers who can't be judged yet. But also, imo, mainly because there is no consensus on what constitutes the greatest manager. It's always going to be a matter of opinion. But then you turn around and claim that Shankly's legacy has been proved to be greater than SAF's. How can that possibly be proved when SAF hasn't even left the club yet? For all we know SAF's successor could win four CLs and ten PLs in eleven years, and Utd could continue to be the best supported and most valuable sports club in the world for the next 50 years. You're effectively arguing against your own argument! As for Paisley and his trophy count, are you going to ignore all the time he spend in the Boot Room under Shankly, learning about the club and the players and helping the build the club whilst Liverpool weren't winning many trophies? That learning curve wasn't much different from the one SAF had at Utd from 1986 to 1998, just with fewer trophies. I'd probably agree with him being in the top 20. I guess it probably depends on how exclusive a club you believe the greatest British managers are! For me he definitely doesn't compare with the greats like SAF, Paisley, Chapman, Shankly, Busby and even Clough. But if he can win four or five major trophies with Liverpool in the rest of his career then maybe he'll be mentioned in the same breath.
Dalglish needs to win a couple of prems, a European cup to be considered a great manager; esoecially after his disasters at Celtic and newcastle. He also needs to prove he can overcome adversity rather Than walk away when the going gets tough every time
I don't agree that there is a contradiction. I was presenting my opinion and as I had been previously asked to do presenting my justification - just as you have done for your argument regarding Paisley. When I claimed that Shankly's legacy outstrips that of Ferguson I based this claim upon the fact that Shanklys legacy is still resident within the club and recognised worldwide over 30 years after he resigned as manager. No matter how long Ferguson remains in charge his legacy would still have to catch up that 30 years. Despite the claims made by either you or me, the fact remains that it is impossible to award the ultimate accolade. All we can do is qualify our statements with In My Opinion. If that satisfies you then OK.
I'm not intelligent enough to understand all this mumbo jumbo. Tell you what Dave, if you stop saying i'm not intelligent enough to understand as your default answer any time I dare query what you have to say, then I'll believe absolutely that you're qualified up to the eye balls. Even if you are, your condescending attitude is totally unneccessary and completely provocative. You should try explaining your reasoning more often instead of insulting other posters with your assumed superiority.
You make it sound as if it's impossible for Fergie's reign to be still talked about for generations. I'm pretty sure it will be.
That is not true. Ferguson's achievements will be held dear by all United supporters, just as Shankly's and Paisley's will be by all Liverpool supporters. Those achievements were neither concurrent or based upon the same factors. Therefore it becomes an individual decision as to what factors to take into account or what weighting should be applied to them. As I replied to Swarbs earlier, my own opinion is that Shankly's achievements are greater than Ferguson's. You will have to make your own decision - though I doubt the criteria that you will use will be the same as mine. The only certainty is that neither Ferguson, Shankly or Paisley can be awarded the accolade of the GREATEST (except maybe in relation to their own club).
Shankly and Paisley will be forgotten long before Lord Ferguson, and I talk about non UTD and Liverpool fans.
Well yeah, since most of today's football fans weren't born when the former two were about. It's like I remember what I had for breakfast this morning more vividly than I remember what I had for tea last Wednesday.
If Ferguson was any breakfast, it certainly wouldn't be a full English. I'll let KPR/EMF tell you what breakfast he'd be, although I will guess it includes a side of Whiskey.
