Match Day Thread Vs Man Utd (A)

[Ivan Dobsky]

There is no way you can say we are out of a title race, that's crazy talk.
Anyway, there is no title race atm., I always look at March as being the month the race for the title starts.
( Apart from last season when we were a billion points clear by new year)

And at this rate, and given our next ten fixtures, I'm betting you now that we'll be 10+ points behind the leaders by March. Not just being a gloomster, but being pessimistically realistic. I mean we've dropped 10 points already in January, and we've still got Spuds to play away. February will be no kinder.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

And at this rate, and given our next ten fixtures, I'm betting you now that we'll be 10+ points behind the leaders by March. Not just being a gloomster, but being pessimistically realistic. I mean we've dropped 10 points already in January, and we've still got Spuds to play away. February will be no kinder.

am not sure what else everyone expected with no fit CB’s?

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

am not sure what else everyone expected with no fit CB’s?

That being in a good position on New Year's Day we'd not lose at least 10 points in January, as the owners would have anticipated the problem and bought at least one CB? It's called evolving strategies - being adaptive with your competences and resources. Not rocket science.

 

[Zanjinho]

That being in a good position on New Year's Day we'd not lose at least 10 points in January, as the owners would have anticipated the problem and bought at least one CB? It's called evolving strategies - being adaptive with your competences and resources. Not rocket science.

Or a 'reaction', particularly in hindsight and especially by fans...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Or a 'reaction', particularly in hindsight and especially by fans...

Considering both Virgil and Joe were injured in October, I'd call it foresight to be prepared to buy a CB in January. Unless they've only just realised now, in which case you may be right.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

That being in a good position on New Year's Day we'd not lose at least 10 points in January, as the owners would have anticipated the problem and bought at least one CB? It's called evolving strategies - being adaptive with your competences and resources. Not rocket science.

At the same time. We were in a good position on New Year’s Day and were coping just fine with what we had. Why go buy someone who might not be first second third or fourth choice because clubs don’t want to lose their players mid season who then won’t play when vvd and Gomez return and end up costing the club millions in wasted transfer fees and wages

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

At the same time. We were in a good position on New Year’s Day and were coping just fine with what we had. Why go buy someone who might not be first second third or fourth choice because clubs don’t want to lose their players mid season who then won’t play when vvd and Gomez return and end up costing the club millions in wasted transfer fees and wages

Because we knew both VVD and Gomez are out for the rest of the season, which meant we relied on one senior centre back who is injury prone, and moving our best DM into defence. All of this could lead us to missing out on top 4, which would have even bigger ramifications than us saving a bit of money in January.

I don't like us doing short term deals, and I commend the way the club has done most of its business over the past few years. We have bought well and strategically, and at good prices. However, there is a time when you can't play it as smart as we would like. This is that time.

If your concern is re. long terms, Gomez's injury has one of the lowest recovery rates across all sports. This is his 2 or 3rd major injury and he's only 23. The chances of him coming back to peak levels is low. Combined with the fact that he is also injury pone. Matip is also injury prone and the rumours are he wanted out as well. These are two unreliable defenders who (in an ideal world) would be upgraded as part of the long term strategy.

 

[Darwinism]

That being in a good position on New Year's Day we'd not lose at least 10 points in January, as the owners would have anticipated the problem and bought at least one CB? It's called evolving strategies - being adaptive with your competences and resources. Not rocket science.

Being aware of the slide down the table and the risk of missing not only the title but a CL place the owners will have to IMO bring in at least one new CB this window. For them money is the priority and missing CL will affect revenue and dividends. The matches this month would have left them in no doubt that our young reserve CBs can’t cut it .

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

At the same time. We were in a good position on New Year’s Day and were coping just fine with what we had. Why go buy someone who might not be first second third or fourth choice because clubs don’t want to lose their players mid season who then won’t play when vvd and Gomez return and end up costing the club millions in wasted transfer fees and wages

Yeah, let's see how that strategy works out this year then. And Virgil and Joe are not returned until May at the earliest. By then we'll have run a few more players into the ground, but we'll complain more about 12.30 kick-offs on Saturdays rather than actually getting more players in when we had the opportunity, Tell me, does your car not have a spare wheel and/or puncture repair outfit because you've never needed one before?

 

[Darwinism]

And at this rate, and given our next ten fixtures, I'm betting you now that we'll be 10+ points behind the leaders by March. Not just being a gloomster, but being pessimistically realistic. I mean we've dropped 10 points already in January, and we've still got Spuds to play away. February will be no kinder.

The way the top places have been and are bunched up this season, a 10+ gap is massive and will see us in 7-8th place and out of even the Europa places. I can’t see this happening even in the worst case scenario. A 6 point gap is more likely as top teams play each other.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Because we knew both VVD and Gomez are out for the rest of the season, which meant we relied on one senior centre back who is injury prone, and moving our best DM into defence. All of this could lead us to missing out on top 4, which would have even bigger ramifications than us saving a bit of money in January.

I don't like us doing short term deals, and I commend the way the club has done most of its business over the past few years. We have bought well and strategically, and at good prices. However, there is a time when you can't play it as smart as we would like. This is that time.

If your concern is re. long terms, Gomez's injury has one of the lowest recovery rates across all sports. This is his 2 or 3rd major injury and he's only 23. The chances of him coming back to peak levels is low. Combined with the fact that he is also injury pone. Matip is also injury prone and the rumours are he wanted out as well. These are two unreliable defenders who (in an ideal world) would be upgraded as part of the long term strategy.

We don't know whether Virgil will retain his speed and agility either. But your point re Joe is correct - I've made the point in The Other Place that Joe and Matip combined don't even make one usual CB in terms of average availability per season, hence why we needed two decent CB's, not one. But hey ho, we're still paying FSG the mortgage on the money for the stand they 'loaned' us (bit like a landlord getting you to borrow £100k for an extension on the house you rent off them, if you ask me), so money can't be that tight.

 

[saintanton]

There are a number of opposing views on here and they all have their valid points but nobody really knows.
I agree that neither Gomez nor Matip are reliable enough in the long-term and we need to do something about this.
We can't even be certain that Virgil will be his old self when he returns.
However, the people who run the club, from the owners down to the senior coaching staff, aren't fools - there's nothing we can see that they can't, and just because we don't know what's going on doesn't mean nothing is. It's in no-one's interest to see the club lose competitiveness and slide down the table and I doubt that everyone is just sitting on their hands.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

There are a number of opposing views on here and they all have their valid points but nobody really knows.
I agree that neither Gomez nor Matip are reliable enough in the long-term and we need to do something about this.
We can't even be certain that Virgil will be his old self when he returns.
However, the people who run the club, from the owners down to the senior coaching staff, aren't fools - there's nothing we can see that they can't, and just because we don't know what's going on doesn't mean nothing is. It's in no-one's interest to see the club lose competitiveness and slide down the table and I doubt that everyone is just sitting on their hands.

Unless they're too busy looking in another direction:

Pandemic’s massive effect on Red Sox' wallet leaves brass looking for answers - The Boston Globe

 

[saintanton]

Unless they're too busy looking in another direction:

Pandemic’s massive effect on Red Sox' wallet leaves brass looking for answers - The Boston Globe

Just out of interest, who would you be happy to have as owners?

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Just out of interest, who would you be happy to have as owners?

These ones, if they appreciated that their asset has increased in value ten times (more in some reports) in the decade they've had it, and perhaps just a tiddly amount of that growth spent of fixing the roof during a storm would be money better spent than waiting for it to fall in.

 

[Zanjinho]

Considering both Virgil and Joe were injured in October, I'd call it foresight to be prepared to buy a CB in January. Unless they've only just realised now, in which case you may be right.

We were talking about the summer and choosing to go into the season with VVD, Gomez and Matip as our only recognised CBs.

 

[Zanjinho]

At the same time. We were in a good position on New Year’s Day and were coping just fine with what we had. Why go buy someone who might not be first second third or fourth choice because clubs don’t want to lose their players mid season who then won’t play when vvd and Gomez return and end up costing the club millions in wasted transfer fees and wages

Exactly but no point arguing mate, hindsight is on their side...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

We were talking about the summer and choosing to go into the season with VVD, Gomez and Matip as our only recognised CBs.

Yeah, but my point was that was the summer, now is now (or indeed when the January transfer window opened).

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Exactly but no point arguing mate, hindsight is on their side...

Crikey, why is this so hard? Yes, I thought it was short-sighted not to cover Lovren when he went just because, as I see it, Fab played well at Chelsea alongside Virgil and against a Werner we now know to be not all he was cracked up to be. But it's not hindsight to say we've lost our main two CB's since then for the rest of the season, therefore we'd need at least one CB lined up by time the window opened in January. That's not hindsight any more than limping into port in a leaky boat and not getting repairs done before you go back out to sea a month later.

 

[saintanton]

These ones, if they appreciated that their asset has increased in value ten times (more in some reports) in the decade they've had it, and perhaps just a tiddly amount of that growth spent of fixing the roof during a storm would be money better spent than waiting for it to fall in.

Ok - so you're happy with who the owners are, but not completely satisfied with the way they're going about things?
That's fair enough, but we have to recognise that we know very little about their affairs and aren't really in a position to judge whether or not they could, or should - be doing more.
Their policy has lifted us from a 4th- 7th club to a world power again, and where we go from here is unknown. If we're back down to an eternal bridesmaid status over the next few years then the fears will have been justified, but until then everything we should be doing is just a matter of speculation.
We all have opinions, but theirs is the only one that pulls any weight, ultimately. As I've said, it's in no-one's interest to see us fail.
Apart from our rivals.