Why are you guys turning on each other? I've lurked on these boards since 606, only posted now the forum has moved but I haven't really seen this kind of divide here at all. You guys are fans that clearly feel strongly for the team, most of you anyway, but the second someone questions the team, various people will either make veiled insults (Piskie's comment in the 'Ask Wenger' thread for example) or openly insult (Mrscym's posts). It's kind of strange to watch unfold, especially as it's gotten worse as the season goes on. Your team is in a crisis, no? You should debate, nobody should be a lemming, but now isn't the time for you to split apart, since fan support is the one thing your team really can't be without at the moment. /rant
I wonder that too K3 I believe the members do debate, at times quite lively it must be said but there also appears to be a wish to keep the thoughts flowing in one direction which is sad to see in a forum since it is intended to be a place for debate. Regards
I don't think there's a wish to keep thoughts flowing in one direction at all, hence the variety of responses. We might not all agree, but that's okay, and what I would see a healthy forum doing. At the end of the day, I'd like to think that this board is robust enough to deal with Gooners' different views.
Really Piskie? Did you not just accuse me of having an agenda when I made my views known about Gazidis. If you have your own views, why not simply place them in the thread as opposed to calling out mine. If you look at other threads like the one raised by Mr Omogooner I think you'll find that the prevailing feeling of thoughts being channelled in one direction is strong, I'm sad to say. http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/92257-An-Audience-with.... This is a forum, a debating chamber.
I've never called anyone a plastic fan. And RVB - yes I did say you had an agenda, because you put words into Gazidis' mouth that he didn't say, therefore it was your agenda, not his. There's no problem with that, I'm just calling it how it is. There's also no problem with anyone who's got a view that our club is in crisis But those people also need to realise that they can have no problem with people who point out that a different view exists. This is how, as RVB points out 'a debating chamber' works.
I do think there are some people on this board who would very much like to see and indeed engineer a split between Arsenal fans. That's why it's important that we can have robust discussion that takes different views into consideration. Like I said, I've got no problem whatsoever with anyone who believes that our club is in crisis. I just don't happen to share that view, and I would expect (like the opposing view) to be able to express that opinion too, without anyone getting upset about it
In reply to your response Piskie I recall someone saying to me many years ago that in writing a testimonial about a person, it is not what you say and what you do not say. Thus I was reading between the lines in what Gazidis said. There are other reports and views out there too if you care to read them. You have your own. That is fine but to jump on anyone whose thoughts differ from yours is not debating. I've said all I have to say in this thread. All here who know me know where I come from.
I'm not jumping on your view, I'm pointing out that it is yours and not Gazidis' Like I said, you don't have to act like the wounded party, just because I disagree with you. You're asking for debate, I'm giving that to you. I don't really see why that's a problem.
I posted numerous support items both on 606 for years and now here. I have been a firm believer in many things Wenger did. However I have watched and worried about a trend gathering speed. The policy(?) of sticking to a wages ceiling (now denied!), the disturbing loss of several players, the resignation of Dein, the Stan buyout. The refusal to buy a keeper, then a CB. Money spent on unnecessary positions. Now loss of our best players- broadcast ages ago, but replacements not found. Finally panic in transfer window final day. So we have transfer issues (again) - unresolved weaknesses in playing staff, demotivated players, threatened departures due to Bosman approaching....... I am not going to sit here and pretend do nothing will sort it all out. Change is required in Board membership or policies. Possibly change in ownership. Possibly change in coaching staff - and yes even in manager. Sitting on hands has gone on far too long.
There certainly are some characters on here who try to oppress the voices of the dissenters and it is the same characters. They deny there are any real problems and are quick to call those who question the team/club plastic fans. These characters are "joke" supporters in my view and DO NOT represent the majority of Arsenal fans I know. Every fan I know is dismayed and angry at what is going on at the club, some of which have been complaining since 2008. I have been a long time admirer of Wenger, I could understand his methods and was happy to fall into line. BUT having seen Wenger NOT move with the times and actually take us backwards over the past 3 years I am no longer willing to fall into line and I want to see significant change, what Wenger and the board are doing to Arsenal is nothing short of disgusting and REAL fans should not be standing for it. We are a joke at this moment and I cannot see any light at the end of this current tunnel. We need to buy players who are fit for purpose, the players Wenger seems to be addicted to are not suitable to English football - which is our bread and butter .. not Europe.
Piskie I thought we were both done with this discussion by your response in item No 12 of this thread? We are never going to get away from this style of discussion, are we? You choose to refer to it as a debate because it suits you while others will continue to testify that they are nothing but responses to anyone who challenges your shrine that is the club. Make it your shrine if you wish. Enjoy it by all means. No one is stopping you from doing that but you should allow us to debate freely if we are doing so constructively and in a polite manner. Our criticism is not negative since we all love the club. You should let us debate and not stifle discussion. Now I'm really done with this.
The thing is when you do argue with the anti regime changers they never actually put across valid points, they either jump to ridiculous conclusions, claim that things were far worse in the 80s or deny there are problems at all. They completely refuse to see the facts and simply pour scorn over any argument by attempting to take some moral high ground as the "loyal fan" who supports the team through thick and thin. Absolute bull shocks ! they are no more a fan than my cousin who wants to beat Wenger up because he is so angry at where the club have gone LOL and I have to say, I'm at the point where I wanna give Wenger a good slapping. Oddly I don't want him to leave the club such is my respect for what he has done for the club but, enough is enough, change of some kind is necessary ! I double dare the pro regimers to argue sensibly against any of my posts.
I'll start with one of their favourite questions: Who would we get to replace him ? Answer: I don't really care at this point, but we need a change of approach, be it coaching or personnel. We cannot continue doing the same thing season in season out and going backwards. First we slipped from being a top 2 club, then we were top 3, then top 4, now it doesn't even look like we will be top 4 this season, backwards we go. We need to halt the slide. I want to see us become a team that is hard to beat first and foremost, forget all this tippy tappy bollox.
Its all very sad- we've gone from formidable and unbeatable one year, with respected stars, to gradually struggling to make the top few, and worse each year. Our manager was only second best to SAF (who I dislike but admire) but now seems to be heading for the funny farm. Our defence once perhaps THE best is now an international joke. Our 'stars' want out - they have settled for the money because the club is going downhill. Our megabucks owner has short arms and long pockets - you have to question why he is here. Our football ambition seems to be merely to fill a stadium we can't even name as our own. If Andrex had offered us the money we'd be calling it the Arse-wipe ground. Our famous youth policy has not made it- we have to buy in others hopefuls. But as we sort of know many of us belong to the Wenger cult - the 'I believe' religion. We are expected to do and think as told. Never mind what the rest of the world is doing, just close your eyes and tell yourself - WE WILL TRIUMPH ONE DAY. Sadly many end up on a joint suicide mission.
We would have been had you not then added the comment about 'jumping' on your comments Are you really? Because it seems that there's a part of you that is enjoying it. I've go no problem with anyone's views on this board, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. But it seems that you are quite keen on making a problem out of it. Let's see if you really are done with it.
It seems to me like there is a slight split between the optimists (piskie, goonercymraeg etc) and the rest. The optimists find the constant perceived negativity of the rest annoying and the rest think the optimists are a bit detached from reality. Ultimately its nothing major but I do think that we should stay away from calling people plastics or other personal insults.
