Saw this and couldn't let it go, a bag of **** amongst many, many bags of ****; So, is Alex Ferguson just lucky then, as our Dave would have us believe? Clearly he's not in the league of the genius that is Kenny, eh?
I kind of agree about some parts of his statement. Having a group of youngsters all come through at the same time and all turn out to be either world class (Beckham, Scholes) or top level players (Nevilles, Butt) saved Utd a fortune in transfer fees and set the core of the team up for years to come. Without those players it could have been a lot different.
That is true, how often do that many players come through at the same time and become the cornerstone of team for more than a decade? It was a stroke of luck, but his statement that Fergies multitude of trophies was purely luck is just flat out stupid.
I've heard Dave say this desperation thing a few times now and I keep letting it go. He seems to ignore the fact that Hansen said you can't win anything with kids in 95-96 , the time they were all becoming first teamers. However United won the league in 92-93 and the double in 93-94 so you have to wonder why SAF was according to Dave so 'desperate'.
Ah, I see. So it was just luck that SAF made personal appeals to the families of Giggs and Beckham to convince them to leave City and Spurs and join Utd? And just luck that SAF completely revamped United's youth system, bringing in the scouts that convinces Scholes to join Utd when he was considering Oldham? And of course it was complete luck that those players all recognised their potential when others (Fowler, Jeffers, Collymore, Pennant, Dyer, Morris, Le Tissier and Gazza) had similar levels of talent (arguably greater than Butt and the Nevilles) but ended up being mediocre at best? Such a fail argument gonzo. Are you now going to claim Milan were lucky to bring Costacurta, Baresi and Maldini through the ranks in the 80s? And Barcelona must be the luckiest ****ers on earth - Valdez, Pique, Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and Messi have just sprung out of the woodwoork as if by magic. Luck has nothing to do with it - having a good and systematic approach to youth development does. Don't forget that SAF has also produced players like Robins, Sharpe, Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley for the Utd first team. When you are producing so many PL quality players, world class ones like Giggs, Beckham and Scholes are more likely to emerge. And youth players are always attracted to Utd cos they know that even if they don't make the first team here, SAF will help them make sure they have a good career and fulfil their potential at the top level. Gillespie, Savage, Shawcross, Cathcart, Wallwork, Richardson, Bardsley, Stewart, Healy, Mulryne, Goater, Spector and Curtis all came through the Utd youth ranks before playing PL football for another club. That's more than any other English club in the last 25 years. When the system works so well, you can't help but create some world class players along the way. It may have been a bit serendipitous that our three best youth players all emerged within five years of each other, but then that's hardly been of overwhelming benefit to us - I'm sure many Utd fans would have been just as happy if Scholes or Beckham had emerged now when we really need a world class player at CM.
I think you're being a bit naive about the academies of football clubs. They are set up to produce talent; but it is luck when a number of players all of huge talent come through at the same time; Barcelona with Valdez, Pique, Messi etc... all coming through within a relatively short space of time have been quite lucky to get so many. Of course, due to their academy it is more likely but they have been lucky. It's the same with United and their group of Giggs, Scholes etc... all coming through at the same time and learning to play together. It was lucky you got the backbone of the team through at the same time, just like Barcelona have been lucky with their current crop. If you don't think it's luck, then I'd like you to look at how many professionals every club's academy produce every year, It will not be 3 or 4 Scholes or Giggs a year...
As I said above, it's more serendipity than outright luck. Over the past 25 years Utd's academy has produced around 40 top flight professional footballers (list will be on the other thread in a min). So around 1.5 per year. Giggs made his first team debut in 1991, Becks in 1992, Scholes in 1994. Giggs, Scholes, Becks, Butt and both Nevilles came through the ranks over a four year spell. Around 1.5 per year. It was an unexpected surprise that our three best youth players of the past 25 years all broke through within four years of each other, but not luck. Giggs and Becks were specifically head hunted from other academies for their talent, and convinced to join Utd by SAF himself which shows how much effort we put into getting and developing them.
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Nice little dig there Another thing though. Do Liverpool fans think Paisley is lucky for inheriting not only the best team in the country but possibly the best team in Europe? Because by my recollection they seem to regard him as the greatest manager of all time. Nobody has consistantly transformed side like Ferguson. He must have had 5 truly great teams. FIVE.
Also having them players come in all at the same time in 95-96 was a massive act of bravery from Ferguson. He could have got it all so wrong. They were only kids and of course you never win anything with kids. Yes they may have been very good players but to be the backbone of a title winning side you need more than just ability. They had the mental strength and Ferguson should be complimented for taking such a risk and turning them into great players. No way on this earth was it luck. I have no doubt that Smalling, Fabio, Rafael, Cleverley, Jones and Welbeck will be the next breed to lead United for years. But has he got lucky? Or just been really shrewd?
We have to agree with our deludapool fans, UTD have only ever been lucky, unlike Liverpool. God I wish UTD was as good as Liverpool, with all there league titles etc* *Would not mind the extra 2 CL titles
You need to read my quote again Swarbs I wasn't saying it was luck, I was saying having those players all come through at the same time set Utd up for a period of dominance.
Most managers wouldnt of spotted these players, nurtured them, become like a father figure to them, taught them to win, given them a hunger, a desire a winning mentality that would last years and years. Each of these players, including the players he signed will tell you almost everytime that there success is down to Fergie.
Part of it down to luck. I've said that before, it's the right combination of factors that have allowed Barcelona to dominate Spanish football and be the strongest team in the world. It's the same for Spain as well, at this moment in time they have the players brought through at the right time that allows them to be world and European champions. But what isn't lucky is the continued sucess that SAF has had over many different United teams. You can say it's luck that so many great youth teams players were around 1992-1994, with the likes that Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Butt and the Nevilles, but that continued source of players has produced players for us. As mentioned before, O'Shea, Brown, Fletcher came through some tough times during the midpart of the last decade with SAF deciding to retire and then not, Arsenal's invincibles and Chelsea coming through and we didn't produce a bucketload of amazing talent, but plenty are still playing PL football. But you can't say it's luck when SAF has nutured the talent (both through the youth system and young bought talent) and managed to be the dominant force in English football and IMO the 2nd best team in the world again when things did look extremely bleak between 2004-2006.
Lol, wasn't actually meant as a dig. And Fowler probably did best out of all the players I mentioned. But given how talented he was, he should have been the next Shearer. Instead, over 16 seasons in top flight English football he has an average of about ten goals a season. Which is pretty poor for a number 9. Although I don't agree Paisley was lucky. He played a big role in building Shankly's Liverpool team. If one of SAF's long term backroom staff was promoted to succeed him, I wouldn't say that was luck, just something deserved. Tho' I think the fact that Paisley never had to build a team from scratch does stand against him when it comes to judging him alongside the other managerial greats. Ah fair enough, and that's very true. But then it was SAF's foresight and ability to spot, train and persuade talented players to sign that meant they all came through, and have kept coming through ever since. Even the ones who didn't make it have collected us a fortune in transfer fees. We've made over £50 million in the last 20 years from selling young players, and that doesn't include the money from Mikel.
