Another result of factory farming within enclosed spaces Toby - in a wild state animals are able to practice social distancing which is not possible under the conditions in which we keep them. In the wild they actually practice this more effectively,and earlier, than we do without an expert in a white coat telling them to do it.
Growth and greed is definitely the problem. Planning a zero-waste food distribution system is near impossible nowadays, people expect choice and constant access to all the foods they're used to. This pandemic could have been a useful way of dealing with overpopulation, unfortunately it just gives most healthy people a bit of flu...
There are a few films around factory farming/ slaughterhouses, showing the inconvenient reality of the situation. My other half insisted I turn off Cowspiracy after 5mins, she didn't like to be told the truth If more people were actually aware of what happens for them to get their cheap burger/bacon/chicken then hopefully less people would be up for it to continue. I'm actually more against hunting/fishing wild animals than factory farms. Leave wildlife alone, there are barely any wild animals left, the poor things should all be protected. I'm also against the thought that people should eat organic/ethically grown/etc meat, as there isn't enough space for producing it. I don't know the numbers of the top of my head but it takes several km2 of land for a cow to be grown to full size, if cheap meat was banned then it would just be a right of the rich to eat what they want. Fingers crossed that future generations will finally open their eyes, but from my point of view it's already too late...
I'm not so sure on the 'hunting' bit Toby. It's done in a different way here in Germany (like in Scotland), not with the horses and hounds and the tally ho bit like in England. Where I live (40 km east of Cologne in the hills) we have an overpopulation of wild boar and deer - naturally it would be better to facillitate the return of the wolf in order to control numbers naturally, but until that happens our local hunter will 'control' their numbers - and. if that happens, then I have no moral qualms about consuming the result. If we were all vegetarians relying on what we grew in the garden, and other local products, then the wild boar and deer would be consuming what we need to live. If we were totally dependent on vegetable products (and all wild animals were free to multiply at will) then we would become very dependent on farmers protecting their crops by any means at their disposal. Having said that - I would change the training programme for people wanting a hunting certificate. I would release them in a forest (with 10 minutes start) and let them know what it feels like to be shot at (just a couple over the head would suffice). The other 'problem' is that we would find it difficult to go back to organic farming without the use of animal products such as dung.
An over simplification but I think the principle holds. Mrs Fez could not be a vegetarian, her constitution won't allow it. I go vegan twice per week because that is, evolutionarily speaking, the way our bodies are designed. We try to source our meat "responsibly", going with the local farm shops than the budget supermarkets. The problem is with animal husbandry and the fact that we, homo-sapiens not so bloody sapien eh?, have exterminated certain animals from the food chain and are eating others that we have no real business in eating. The virus is adapting all the time, I dare say the vaccine that has been lauded I would assume to be useless against this latest strain. We only have ourselves to blame.
I don't believe that we need to eat meat. I'm living proof of that You'd never tell I'm a lifelong veggie from my appearance. I'm not suggesting ripping it all out overnight, people are set in their ways and have needs. Something has to be done though, and the best way is through education. Sadly in this country we're just taught that greed is good, Attenborough talks about climate change and people might do a bit more recycling but that's about as far as it goes. I've given up on the whole thing, the next decade or so will, in my opinion, be an incredibly depressing period to live through (compared to the previous few decades of my life, not the rest of human history)
I just used it as an example, as I'm often told that animals should have a 'good' life before we butcher and eat them by people defending their meat consumption. I doubt many animals would agree Of course land management will be required, times have changed from a few centuries/millenia ago. I agree on the hunters licence bit, a taste of their own medicine might help What we've done to this planet in the last 200 or so years is disgusting, all in the name of profit and greed.
Mrs Andy and I are veggies. As a world we need to make changes, and one of the most substantial changes you can make to the environment is to go veggie. It’s a doddle, and health-wise my body quickly felt the difference. For years I couldn’t square the fact I liked animals but also ate them. But you know, it does come down to: “I love animals, and some of them are really tasty.” How would it be if we swapped the word ‘babies’ for ‘animals’? I mean, we don’t just kill animals for sport, that’s bad enough. But we eat them! And we’ve rationalised this! Imagine being a murderer in jail, and discussing your crimes with your cellmate, you say: “I’m in here because I killed a man.” “Me, too,” says the cellmate. “Then I ate him.” Suddenly this marks them out as a colossally creepy crazy guy. What’s the difference? The old “Well we are omnivores” argument doesn’t carry a lot of weight. What if your cellmate said that to you? “Don’t all freaked out on me!” he might say. “We have canine teeth! So I ate him.”
In terms of body shape, I haven’t changed at all. My weight is the same, too. I just feel much healthier. And happier. For some reason, people are always shocked when I say I’m a vegetarian. Probably my age, and general demeanour.
I genuinely don't see a disadvantage. I went to school with meat eaters and they didn't turn out taller/stronger/smarter than me, the only issue is that it's annoying to go out for meals in some countries or be invited out for dinner. I just turn up with loads of beer instead nowadays
Alas she has too many food intolerances, it really isn't a practical option for her. I have no qualms about eating meat, I do have concerns about animal husbandry, more serious concerns about the transportation and slaughter of our food (I have watched some pretty gory YouTube uploads). There are certain meats I refuse to eat (our cousins, endangered species, whale, to suggest several - I've eaten ostrich, kangaroo, alligator) and I do find the concept of trophy hunting abhorrent. Not justifying anything here, just saying how it is for me.
My wife is semi veggie as she does eat fish I only have meat once a week now sometimes twice, we have a couple of meals a week with quorn, chilli and spaghetti bol or shepherds pie
I tend to look back to our ancestors who were hunter gatherers. Any animal that they caught was fully used, for clothing, tools as well as food. Over time they evolved to keeping stock rather than taking the chance of finding it. With that in mind I hate to see an animal killed for just a few cuts of meat that suit a populations taste, that has been heavily influenced by the supermarkets, and so much of it just thrown away. In France meat tends to be expensive with a lot of it locally reared, so people actually tend to have small quantities of it, and there are many parts on sale that you do not find in an English supermarket. With the emergence of Lidl and Aldi in France they are buying in from all over the world and undercutting the local farmers. It is difficult to tell those who have been struggling to manage to pay more for a meal. Despite being surrounded by sheep here, I could buy a leg of lamb from NZ at half the price of a local one. That is wrong on all sorts of levels. Going back to the hunting theme, like cologne we have a problem with deer and wild boar. Apart from the danger they cause on the roads, they will destroy woodlands and create mayhem in vegetable growers plots unless the numbers are controlled. Certainly I would rather see the contents of a cow shed put back onto the fields rather than a load of chemicals, although a hot summers day is not always the nicest time to do it.
On a random note. Do you believe in animal consciousness? Do you think animals feel pain? Recognise each other? Know they're alive? Because it's pretty obvious that they do. Starting from there, I don't see why anyone can justify eating them.
Makes life more difficult Mine can't eat mushrooms, not an allergy but she cannot bear the texture, I am coeliac so eating out is interesting
Not really interested in getting into philosophical arguments on the subject. However I do not "believe" in animal consciousness. All animals feel pain so far as I'm aware being the main reason why I am concerned how my food "lives and dies" and I don't eat ritually slaughtered food. Most animals do not recognise the self, I tend not to eat the ones that do as I've pointed out. Many animals mate for life and, especially birds, pick each other out in a crowd after weeks if not months apart. I have canine teeth, for a reason, clue is in the name. I'm an omnivore, as are our nearest cousins chimpanzees. We're merely jumped up savannah apes, no more, no less. Just not, perhaps, as sapiens as the name we've given ourselves might suggest.
