I don't suppose you get the Eye in Spain, but the Oxford vaccine is not-for profit, whereas members of the Pfizer board have made small fortunes out of buying and selling shares at times which their inside knowledge told them would pay the best dividends. The Oxford one will also be the most transparent. There's lots of other stuff worth knowing. I'm sure the virus is looking forward to a very productive Christmas.
No we don't get the eye in Spain, but the transparency is very welcome. There was a case recently with a major pharmaceutical company that put a carcinogen in their talcum powder and despite knowing full well what they'd done, had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the courts to be made to stop and pay compensation. When profit overrides safety to that extent, and the company plays hardball to avoid consequences, people die. Imagine that sort of corner cutting over Covid. And yes covid will be cleaning up the vulnerable all through the winter I'm afraid.
You must have too much time on your hands, I only started the last issue earlier this week ... I will get round to reading this one in a week or two.
To say that anyone who doesn't want the vaccine is happy for Covid to go on Indefinitely is insane? Recent polls suggests that 35% of the population won't accept an early vaccine. That's 22 million people that you can spend the rest of your life condemning. I would like to see alcoholics offered a vaccine to stop them drinking, but I'd also like them to have the choice.
People need this to be spelled out to them very clearly. If you won't take the vaccine you are helping the virus to spread. A 65% uptake won't be enough to virtually eradicate Coronavirus. The more people take a vaccine, the more the virus will be prevented from spreading. The more lives will be saved. People cannot opt out on this and claim to be innocent bystanders. You either take the vaccine, or you take the blame. 70,000 people are dead. This is not the time to pussy out.
Trouble is, the anti vacc brigade don't respond to rational argument. They didn't arrive at their position through reason, and they won't get out through reason.
True enough. But I think the hard core of the anti-vacc brigade are a tiny minority. Less than 1% I would guess. Everyone else who doesn't want to take the vaccine right now is just thinking that way out of fear. Fears can be allayed with education and evidence, for people whose minds are open despite their anxieties. Reasonable people. The vast majority of those who are worried or undecided or disinclined. But we should not pull any punches. If you don't take the vaccine you aren't helping NHS staff and carers and key workers. You're hurting them. You're making their jobs harder. You're increasing the pressure they are under. Just ask them. Any one of them. Not one doctor or nurse or key worker will ever say to you "don't take the vaccine". That's hundreds of thousands of smart, educated people, at the front line of fighting this pandemic. Are they all mistaken?
Fifteen arrests at an anti-lockdown protest in Liverpool today; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-55030622 This is a difficult issue. When so many of our traditional freedoms have been taken away (albeit temporarily) I would be surprised if there was not some resistance, and some of that in the form of protesting. Not allowing public gatherings and protests is something very rare in our history. But I would hope protesters would do their best to follow social distancing and other safety guidelines for helping to prevent the spread of the virus. Face masks for instance; although not required by the rules out in the open, it would obviously be sensible to take that precaution when mixing (even at a little distance) with many unfamiliar people. I assume these protesters are not against all forms of protective measures against infection, just the idea of locking down. A very tough job for the Police. I certainly don't envy them. With good fortune however, their task may get easier within six months or so.
I cannot see people in this protest adhering to social distancing etc. It will go against what they are attending for.
That's a good question. Sadly during the night there is news of a large scale disturbance in the city centre of Cardiff. This might be unconnected to protests (maybe a drunken brawl got out of hand?) But it is very worrying nonetheless. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55032502 During the Blitz there was an enemy which could not be ignored. The evidence of the harm they did was in everybody's faces. Perhaps if there was a TV channel running 24/7 showing uncut details of what is happening in COVID19 intensive care wards, some folks would have a different perspective on keeping each other safe from infection. But I guess the same could be said for any kind of behaviour seen as needing to be modified by increased understanding. 24/7 uncut coverage of prison life, or the lives of care workers, or abattoirs & the meat processing industry, or waste disposal, or peacekeeping efforts in war zones (to name but a few examples) might cause big shifts in public opinion regarding our values and behaviour. But how much extra distress can we cope with, especially on top of the pressures of our own lives. I guess real change will only ever come gradually as a generational thing. I might feel very differently about lockdowns if my own personal experience of the pandemic was worse than it has been. I've been fortunate in that I have not lost my job or livelihood to it. I work in manufacturing (whole products, not specialised components for others in a chain) and this kind manufacturing has not been hit nearly as hard as service & leisure industries. I think there is a lesson there. As an 'old fashioned' working class person, I've never been comfortable with the ongoing process of the last 30 years or so - the shift of our economy away from manufacturing (which I regard as a 'primary' industry) and towards service & leisure (which are 'secondary' industries in my view). The vulnerability of service industries has always been clear to me in both its chronic form - the high turnover of service businesses coming and going, sometimes on nothing more than the whim of fashion or a new tweak of technology - and now in its acute form - the mass closure of all "non-essential" shops, restaurants, theatres etc. during lockdown. Manufacturing firms are starkly different in that respect. I think it highly prudent to assume another pandemic will sweep around the world within 5 to 10 years, and that these things will continue to occur with that kind of frequency. Gradually we should get better at coping with them on all levels - but each one will likely have unique characteristics that we will have to adapt to. One 'pre-adaptation' which I think we would do well to seriously think about in this country is a concerted shift back towards manufacturing of goods that we, and the whole world, are going to need in the medium term future. And a shift away from vast numbers of insecure jobs in service and leisure industries - which by their very nature are highly dependent on economic stability in other sectors (the 'boom' part of the boom and bust rollercoaster), and are transitory because of that.
I would like to see Child Abusers and Rapists castrated .... I would rather they DIDN'T have a choice .... a one strike system!
These problems are of course entirely different ones. Any similarities are coincidental and misleading. Alcoholism or sex crimes are problems completely unconnected to the pandemic in any way. Any arguments that may be applicable to those issues have no bearing on how we deal with COVID19 and any future disease outbreaks. There is no balance of views in the vaccination debate. There is no coin with two equal but opposite sides. Mass vaccination will reduce Coronavirus to the level of seasonal Flu when it comes to the damage it can do to our society. Once we have it, we can begin gradually to repair the harm already done. Let's make no mistake - without mass vaccination we will lose the battle to preserve our civilised way of life. The full extent of the damage to our country since March 2020 has been largely hidden by furlough and other economic measures based on borrowing which we cannot afford to repay. Our economy (and our whole way of life) is under extreme threat. This situation simply cannot go on much longer. Without mass vaccination soon we face the collapse of all our institutions. The NHS, vital services, law and order. Anybody arguing that the 'dangers' of vaccination outweighs that future is frankly barking mad. That's why there is no place on this forum for any anti-vacc material.
I recently saw a graph which showed the relative strengths of the manufacturing and service industries during the 20th century. They were pretty even up until 1979, when service industries suddenly went sharply up and manufacturing went sharply down.
Tables at the top of the thread updated. In very approximate terms, infection rates across the 8 European countries listed seem to have peaked. Fatality rates are also about the same as last week, except in France (where infection rates were extremely high 2 weeks ago). We might be reaching the peak of the second wave, because of the measures brought in to reduce the spread.
The rate of infection may be holding nationally, but in Bromley it's still on a steep upward curve, unlike most London boroughs, which are now on a downward curve.
