seeing the offical match day thread has descended into a who's is bigger arguement i thought i'd post my post match views. 1. Rodwell. Lets state right now i was shocked by the ref's decision and felt it was wrong. HOWEVER there are 3 very salient points. First his studs were clearly showing. Second the boy did it in front of the ref (<5 yards) and knew he was in trouble cos he held his head the minute he saw where the ref was. Third he did actually catch suarez so the whining evertonians cannot say much other than the ref was harsh. Rodwells other leg was tucked in but clearly impacted on suarez and did so forcefully. 2. The ref's performance outside of that. Shocking, terrible, pathetic. First fellaini did an identical challenge for which a free kick was awarded yet no card at all was produced, right there that's inconsistency. Second he forgot where his cards were later in the game and was only lucky that both teams disipline largely held. Third he booked lucas for a tackle which was innocuous (yet was a free) yet let far heavier challenges go. Finally the penalty, bought by suarez brilliantly but still a stonewall penalty. Suarez's awareness is something else and he knew if he put his body in the way the player would take him down. 3. The performances. I was less than impressed with Adam and downing, again. Actually downing's performances need to start being questioned as he has not been that good for 4-5 games now. Adam is I'm afraid too slow for the game he's trying to play. Alonso played a different game and was slow too but adam is out of position and not doing too well for me. Downing is playing fully 15 yeards infield whereas the minute he came off we got an overlap with enrique and scored. co-incidence? I think not. In fairness to him kuyt did the same and was making it very easy for everton also. Tactic? who knows? ......but it's not working and downing may as well be a passenger for all he's doing. Bringing your full back into the game requires you being in a good position to do so. It takes bravery to hold your position and potentially not get posession for 10mins rather than run about stupidly in the middle getting touches but just laying it back all the time. 4. Everton. They've a good team at the back and have a solid midfield so they can count themsevles unlucky to be frank. I don't think we'd have won that easily without that sending off but there you go, we were robbed at spurs by a ref (and adam being thick) so now everton give us the points back. Thats life! 5. our away form. Despite a 2-0 victory, soured by an undeserved red, I don't think this really gets us very far along the road of knowing where we are at with away form. Two losses followed by this one win which was not "regulation" leaves us as in the dark as before the match unfortunately. We didn't learn much about skertl and carragher at the back due to them not being under any real pressure, but maybe we did see some midfield issues that need to be resolved. 6. Am I happy? Of course! it's another 3 points on the road and it is there that 4th will be decided. It's a derby day win which gives us reds the bragging rights for a while and we have yet more evidence that suarez is THE man for us now, as long as he plays and is supported there's goals in our side....
Good points. I too share the same thoughts on Downing - he started off really well but seems to have gone missing all of a sudden. He's known as being a traditional winger who puts a lot of balls into the box but his best performances for Liverpool were when Carroll wasn't starting and he was linking with Kuyt and Suarez, therefore didn't have the pressure of crossing all the time. I feel the central midfield is a little weak. The pairing of Lucas and Adam is slow and they don't have the ability to dominate a midfield. While Lucas has improved a lot, I still feel that he is a good squad player rather than a top class DM that many Liverpool fans believe. I hope we bring in M'Vila and Banega in the summer. I think our away form isn't that bad - we've played 4, won 2 and lost 2 which includes a very good performance against Stoke which we should have won. All in all, our only poor performance of the season was against Spurs and the rest have been pretty good. One criticism of Kenny is his persistence to use Carroll. I understand the lad needs a run of games to get his confidence up but I feel his inclusion is hindering the team. Despite scoring a good goal, prior to that he was awful. It's as if we're playing with 10 men ourselves. Kenny said we bought the lad for the future so why should we rush him now? Having said that, after he scored the goal, he started to bull the defenders and caused Howard to concede a corner - that's the AC I expect to see! I don't want him outside the box, trying to hold up the ball and link up because truthfully his touch is so poor. Let him train hard, get sharp, understand and get used to the LIVERPOOL style of football before he becomes a regular. It's no coincidence that we played our best football when AC is not starting.
I dont have any sympathy for Everton concerning the result of the game. We have played with 10 men in the derby and beaten them twice in Rafa's reign. It was not a red card offense but the speed at which the tackle came in from behind the referee and Suarez going down like he did, I can fully understand why the ref thought it was a red. Concerning the game I would rather Henderson starts partnering Lucas in the middle than watching Adam play. What grinds my gears with Adam is once a player does him he stops running back into position and watches as Lucas tries to retrieve the ball. Tactical awareness is crucial and Adam lacks that. He lacks stamina to last the whole game and this beats why we sold Miereles. That said, Gerrard got some game time which is crucial as well as having quality players to call on from the bench. Carroll scored but I don't know why no one has mentioned the dummy Kuyt did to allow the goal. This is the quick thinking that most of his bashers don't appreciate. 3 points is all that matters as well as bragging rights.
going by our recent past we are strong at home (13wins at home on average over the past 5 years) so we can count on something of the order of 39-42 points at home alone. to make up the 70 points needed for 4th we then need about 28-31 points from away games.... or in other words 8 or 9 wins on the road.... last year we got 5. so winning 9 games out of 19 sounds easy... and yes we've beaten arsenal and everton away which is good but conversely we've lost to spurs and stoke. On caroll... i nthe end we've got to give the guy a go. if we're playing with ten men yet the first time we turn everton by getting to the byline he scores it kind of shows something. Both our widemen came 15 yards infield, kuyt was everywhere but his wing contributing nothing for instance then it makes it VERY easy to mark up in the middle... not only did carroll look bad but enrique and kelly never got to contribute going forward simple beacuse they were faced with two opponets all day when in possession and had to lay it off inside or back..... if our wide men would play wide and create over laps then i'm for one confident we'd see more out of carroll. but i nthe end the issue is we could buy aldridge in jan 1987 then not play him cos rush was still there. It'd be nice to give caroll another 6 months to "develop" but we don't have an alternative. Kenny has benched bellamy for a reason it seems, his knees are not good and he's there as an option not a starter. Aldo didn't look very good in 1987 either but then barnes and beardsley came in and he was a world beater (until rush returned) so..... we've suarez, we've gerrard, we've got downing. it's up to us to make carroll work and i just don't think we are doing that right now. Especially the way kuyt and downing played.
We can talk all day about the red card and being very harsh on the lad but up to that moment we saw absolutely nothing from Charlie Adam in the game. Only after the blues went down to 10 men did we actually see Adam at all. He was lost in what was a quick and frenetic game that was simply passing him by. Its just confirmed to me that the lad can pass a ball, but is not quick enough in thought of mind or in his body to run a game of this magnitude...
MiTO, have you ever played football? It seems strange when you make statements like , "Finally the penalty, bought by suarez brilliantly but still a stonewall penalty. Suarez's awareness is something else and he knew if he put his body in the way the player would take him down." Suarez did not BUY the penalty or "put his body in the way". The whole of his movement was designed to turn with the ball played to him so that he was in a position to shoot or continue the attack. His eyes wre completely focused upon the ball and he made no move that could even be considered as a blocking manoeuvre. It was simply a stupid tackle and a stonewall penalty!
actually i challenge you to go watch the replay. I'm not saving he wasn't positioning himself just for a pen but give the guy and me a bit of credit! http://fullhighlights.blogspot.com/2011/10/video-jagielka-fouled-suarez-in-box.html Suarez knew exactly where jagielka was and how he was coming in. he actually moved, in my opinion, toward jagielka to step in front of the challenge that was coming in. ths movement had two effects; first to block the players path to the ball and second if no contact came he could do what you suggest. However one cannot help but notice that suarez made sure his leg stayed out there further than really needed to power off of. The credit i am giving suarez is that he didn't simply try to block a guy off and trun he saw instantly the scenario in front of him and positioned himself so that he was either going to be fouled or be in possession. The guy is simply brilliant, I've absolutely no issue with a guy seeing and exploiting an opponent charging in stupidly, i think it's a part of the game. He did move to block off jagielka.There's no way that the pass he got was fast enough for him to not do what he did without jagielka getting the ball. see 27 seconds in on the link i provide. I see him stepping into the path of the oncoming jagielka, if you then lok at the wide angle view in the first couple of seconds you can see suarez moving out for the pass from adam and he knows at that point precisely where jagielka was. This is why i say his awareness is brilliant. examples of players who regulalry "buy" frees could be damien duff for example, knock the ball past the guy and allow the contact... Again i've no issue with it cos its not diving, its just using the opponent's bad decision making against them. Diving is what guys who flop about at any contact do, at least in this case suarez had to take contact which is a lot better than a flopper and leg dragger.
This is my take on it on why Rodwell was sent off, and I'm not saying I agree with it, as I don't. It was because his studs were showing. Steven Gerrard was sent off at Old Trafford in the 3rd round of the FA Cup for the same thing. 1.He won the ball. 2. Carrick also went in two-footed. 3. Gerrards studs were showing Thats why he was sent off. There was far worse challenges that the sending off. There has to be a mandate on what constitures a sending off offence and what doesn't. It seems a bit ambigious. If the referees haven't been told then its obvious they are going to make mistakes as they are only human. I've seen far worse challenges given yellows that sending off. As for the penalty, that was given for Jagielkas overall stupidity. Suarez was going nowhere and a top defender would have guided the ball away from him, Jagielka used brawn instead of brains. As for the overall performance, Liverpool deserved to win as they created the most chances, had the most shots on target. There is however parts of the team that do need to be looked at, I was a bit unimpressed with both Downing and Adam, and we looked like a far more inventive side when Gerrard and Bellamy came off the bench, but thats the benefits of having a decent squad. Its something we've been crying out for quite a while. Four years ago Bellamy would have been a starter and Gerrard would have been the mainstay of our team. Its great that we can afford to bring quality like that off the bench.
In the position that Suarez was, with his back to goal then he is going to spin with the ball. In order to do so he has to transfer his bodyweight briefly to his left in order to plant his right foot and use it as a fulcrum for the spin. That is what you are interpriting as a blocking move. Sure, he was aware of Jagielka and knew that his positioning meant that he could not get to the ball without fouling him. Hence, when the contact was made he went down. having said all of that it was a penalty and was not a dive or even a 'won' penalty a la Fabregas last season (trailing the back foot)
Afternoon, When I first the the penalty incident my initial thought was the Suarez had done well to win the penalty ( ie putting his body between the defender and the ball ) however after watching the replay I think it was just poor defending. that's not to take anything away from Suarez but in that position the defender should simply not be trying to nip the ball infront of the striker
It actually was a bit of both to be honest. It was poor defending and good players knowing that they're up against a relatively clumsy defender will draw the foul. As we all know scoring goals and winning matches is all about gaining an advantage, and all good players will gain an advantage. Its the key to success.
watch the video, he is running out, stops (both feet down) then his left goes towards jagielka. My opinion is he knows exactly what to do and this is why he's so effective. wehter jagielka slows up and doesn't make contact or he keeps coming suarez is coming out on top. It's a pen but hey this guy is on the case for 90 mins whether he's winding up a defender (pulling guys hair ) or hassling a player into a mistake (everton goal) or beating his man and scoring (wolves) people may have a go at him from opposing sides cos they can't handle him, we'veseen that with gerrard and torres and had goes ant rooney and ronaldo oursevles but i nthe end the fact is he's just that good
Lets get one thing straight. Everton can have complaints about Rodwell being sent off, however they cannot have complaints about being down to 10 men. I think most of us are in agreement that Felliani or Hibbert should have seen straight reds. If Atkinson made a mistake it was that he sent the wrong Everton player off. I'm also in agreement with many of you that Rodwell should not have been sent off. Suarez drew the foul for the penalty, and he's not the only player that does it, and I find the fact from loads of quarters that he's been called a ''cheat'' is hypocritical and stupid and a load of bollox. All players do it, and the ones that say they don't are liars.
i agree... i totally agree on the gerrard incident last january as well btw... everton at least didn't have to endure the referee smiling gleesfully, enjoying the monet as he produced the red card. I also agree with the point that felliani was as much a red as rodwell and worse that lucas got a yellow for a far more innocuous challenge than eithe rof them! all in all, rodwell was harshly dealt with. thinking on it my own theory matches up with the angle the sky guys produced for the refs view. first the ref could not see which foot hit suarez, he could actually only see rodwell's back as his view was right down the line of the challenge. second there was already a "brawl" or handbags earlier in the match and he may have been thinking he needed to get a grip on things. I think myself that ok if he'd seen what i think he saw fine but really he could not see from that angle if studs were invovled or not. the issue i have is he took and instant view and didn't give himself any time or consulted with his linesman. I think he felt another brawl was about to take place so tried to get a grip and in so doing ended evertons participation on an even contest. after all from then on it was a rear gaurd action. this refs now sent off 5 guys in what 7 games so far this year? that needs looking at seriously.
MITO. Moyes claims that he deserves an apology because the referee cost Everton the game. Everton cost everton the game. Apart from the Cahill chance and the later half chance, they created nothing apart from a few Saha shots that went wide. If Reina made two saves in 90 minutes, that was the height of it. Liverpool dominated posession, created more chances and even the neutrals will say that Liverpool even without the sending off deserved to win the game. There is no way whatsoever that Everton would have finished the game with 11 players. If it had been any other referee either Hibbert or Felliani would have saw red, thats without Rodwell walking. I do however believe that Rodwell was harshly dealt with. Although Everton did deserve to have at at least one player sent off.
