Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

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Diego said:
It could be said that Xavi and Iniesta made Messi, they taught him how to play and think. Yes he has enormous, unbelievable talent but it could have all gone to waste without those two leading the way.
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It’s like saying the teachers of Einstein, Newton or Da Vinci have to get credit for these geniuses. Which is absolute nonsense.
 
sadiosalah said:
It’s like saying the teachers of Einstein, Newton or Da Vinci have to get credit for these geniuses. Which is absolute nonsense.
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Not really.
“If I have seen further,” Isaac Newton wrote in a 1675 letter to fellow scientist Robert Hooke, “it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
Nobody is a genius in a vacuum - progress is incremental, certainly in the development of human knowledge.
How much this applies to sportsmen is arguable, but I tend to agree with those above who say that the term GOAT is too simplistic.
 
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saintKlopp said:
Not really.
“If I have seen further,” Isaac Newton wrote in a 1675 letter to fellow scientist Robert Hooke, “it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
Nobody is a genius in a vacuum - progress is incremental, certainly in the development of human knowledge.
How much this applies to sportsmen is arguable, but I tend to agree with those above who say that the term GOAT is too simplistic.
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Of course these geniuses did not create their masterpieces from scratch. They built on previous work, especially in science. My point was about the credit being given to xavi and Iniesta for Messi being the genius he is today. Messi would have learnt from many players and coaches. I cannot believe that messi would have been a much lesser player if he had been playing for Madrid or any other top team when he was growing up. Most of his ability and skills are not taught.
 
sadiosalah said:
It’s like saying the teachers of Einstein, Newton or Da Vinci have to get credit for these geniuses. Which is absolute nonsense.
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Teachers? No. Messi has a god given talent.

It is well documented, however, that Einstein was inspired by Hume...albeit that they weren’t alive at the same time. I can’t speak for anyone else, but Xavi and Iniesta would have inspired me.
 
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Zanjinho said:
Isn't there a third split...? Foreigners, home grown (trained by any English or Welsh club as a youngster) and home produced (trained by the club they're playing for)...? Or have I imagined this...?
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I believe that is how Uefa see it.

Uefa have 3 classifications:
Foreign talent: someone from outside the nation that arrived after the age of 21 (or haven't had a certain amount of years in the country before 21)
Home grown: Someone who has been trained in England or Wales for 3 years (?) before they're 21.
Club Home Grown: someone who has been trained at the club for at least 3 years (?) before 21

This is why Arsenal could claim Fabregas was home grown for all those years

Don't think the FA take it to the third step, just Home Grown and Foreign.
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
we supposedly offered £10m though reports suggested Norwich were pissed off with our behaviour . Have a suspicion we were never serious & just used Lewis as a bargaining tool in our pursuit of Tsimikas .
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A lot of that goes on tbh...we are linked to a ton of players to drive prices/wages up i’m sure so I’d be disappointed if we didn’t do similar.
 
I think Crystal Palace offered them the same amount Newcastle are paying about a year ago, .was rejected by Norwich.Now, it its buyer's market.
 
Diego said:
It could be said that Xavi and Iniesta made Messi, they taught him how to play and think. Yes he has enormous, unbelievable talent but it could have all gone to waste without those two leading the way.
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In same way Anderson and Carrick made Ronaldo and taught him how to play?
 
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RogerisontheHunt said:
I don't like that term, its too debtable.
You could say the same about a few players, Pele and Maradona (who both won WCs btw) for a start.
Is he the best of his generation? Again some would argue, C Ronaldo would be mentioned.

Trying to find or claim 'the best ever' is wrong, different eras, different styles, different football. Would Messi have surived the old school football of yester year, would Pele have been even better if he'd come through the modern era with all its advancements. Who knows, and that's why there will never be a GOAT.

Messi is (was?) however a great player
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Before my team but Pele never did it in big European league, albeit Brazilian league was obviously better then.

True it’s debatable so should have said in my opinion the best of all time... however the point was messi is and was a better player then xavi and iniesta. Not to say they weren’t great but I don’t think it’s debatable to say that he was better than them
 
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