Season review, what needs to be done and expectations

[Billy The Spur]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

I like Winks. If you want to keep the ball and dictate the pace of a game, he's excellent. He looks great against European teams who aren't pressing him like mad.

Can he shine in a 3?

Yes. It's his best formation. In a 2, he lacks the athleticism and physicality that's required.

Can he shine if we're going to cede possession to the opposition and make do with less than 40% of the ball?

I don't know and really doubt it.

 

[Dier Hard]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

Neither are great but I’d have Sissoko over Winks any day of the week. Sissoko has a bit more defensive steel (especially protecting/ covering Aurier on the right) along with the ability to carry the ball forward. However he doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, nor can he shoot to save his life.

Winks on the other hand can’t defend, can’t create, rarely/ never carries the ball forward and is prone to passing backwards or to the side far more than Sissoko. He’s up there with being the most pointless player I’ve seen at Spurs, not the worst (not that far off mind), but the most pointless.

Both players would struggle to make the XI’s of most of the league though. The fact we’ve had to select them both in the XI for the majority of games over the past 2 seasons shows how badly our central midfield has declined.

 

[PowerSpurs]

im talking about what’s next

he needs to back Jose

Yeh well done on eventually backing Poch with a signing

It’s not Jose’s fault that Ndombele is a useless sack of ****. Before Jose turned up everyone would carry the mantra that the new manager needs his own squad/team...funny how that seems to have changed for the new man.
Cold hard facts are the one time we spent a shed load we seemed to have spent it on a dud...that’s not on Jose.

So moving on...we need to get rid of the massive flop and back Jose with the change or send Ndombele to hypnotherapy or something similar


It’s not about spending lots, something we seem to be bang average at anyway..it’s about shopping for the manager. It can be done.

So which Poch target who was available didn't we sign? It was clearly a Poch decision to prioritise Ndombele and Lo Celso above Bruno Fernandes.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

To be fair to Sissoko, he's often dragged out to the right to deal with Aurier's defensive frailty, leaving Winks on his own in the middle.
It's a sequence of ****e that unbalances our whole side.

We need a proper right-back or two, a holding midfielder and a playmaker, plus a bunch of squad players.
Can't see it happening, I'm afraid.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

If Alex Telles of Porto and Nicholas Tagliafoco of Ajax are available for £23m, as is being suggested, then why aren't we in for them?
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Ben Davies, we clearly can't go into next season with one left-back and Rose is on the way out.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

The thing with Winks is that he isn't press resistant

This wasn't a problem 3-4 seasons ago when we were pressing high up the pitch so he had that extra half second to pick out his passes, but for the past 18 months the lack of the high press has invited pressure onto central midfield and, as a result, exposed Winks' lack of press resistance - which has been further exacerbated by Sissoko often having to drift right to cover the gap left by Aurier, most obviously in that utterly shambolic game against Man Utd late last year where our central midfield looked like the M25 due to the amount of traffic going through it, something that wouldn't have ever happened between 2015-17

 

[Dier Hard]

If Alex Telles of Porto and Nicholas Tagliafoco of Ajax are available for £23m, as is being suggested, then why aren't we in for them?
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Ben Davies, we clearly can't go into next season with one left-back and Rose is on the way out.

Both great players, at those prices we'd be silly not to consider one.

Although I read on one of Ally Gold's live chats the other day that Jose and the staff are apparently working strongly with Sessegnon on his defensive aspects so I have a feeling we won't be looking for a left back and that we'll see more of Sess next season. It's annoying that he never got a minute of football since the restart though, there were plenty of opportunities to have given Davies a rest as well as switching things up by having a more attack minded FB in certain games.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Both great players, at those prices we'd be silly not to consider one.

Although I read on one of Ally Gold's live chats the other day that Jose and the staff are apparently working strongly with Sessegnon on his defensive aspects so I have a feeling we won't be looking for a left back and that we'll see more of Sess next season. It's annoying that he never got a minute of football since the restart though, there were plenty of opportunities to have given Davies a rest as well as switching things up by having a more attack minded FB in certain games.

By the same token, Aurier also needed a rest as he played as many minutes as Lloris did post-restart

The thing with the asymmetrical fullbacks is that, so far, there's always been something preventing the system working: for Poch it was the combination of injuries to Foyth or Davies at various times for the buildup role coupled with an unmotivated Danny Rose in the attacking role, while for the ubermensch it was nobody being available for the attacking role at LB so Davies and Aurier were guaranteed to play every single game

Also, it has to be said, there's a potential flaw in the system. Say the opponents have a LB who is weak against pace, which makes playing Aurier at RB the obvious choice...but because it's the obvious choice it can potentially be countered, similar to how a couple of seasons ago a few teams had someone marking Trippier high up the pitch so he couldn't get forward and nullified that flank pretty effectively

 

[PowerSpurs]

He looks exactly like David Bentley and GDS...and KPB...and Taarabt to my eye. He's got all the ability in the world but just hasn't got the desire to work like a bastard to go with it.

I could probably chuck in Pav, Bent and a number of others. It's shocking how often we buy players who haven't got the heart that all top players need.

He needs to go and we need to learn the lesson...finally.

That's bound to happen. You can see the potential and think you can coach the attitude but you will often be wrong.
If we get a bid of anything like what we paid I think I would cash in.

 

[The Huddlefro]

That's bound to happen. You can see the potential and think you can coach the attitude but you will often be wrong.
If we get a bid of anything like what we paid I think I would cash in.

I’d also be sorely tempted.

 

[Dier Hard]

That's bound to happen. You can see the potential and think you can coach the attitude but you will often be wrong.
If we get a bid of anything like what we paid I think I would cash in.

I’d also be sorely tempted.

I think most if not all fans think the same.

If Barca are genuinely interested and there's a possibility to strike a deal where we get one or two players in return (Coutinho and Semedo?) then it's something that really needs to be considered.

 

[Blue and White]

I think Jose will work with Davies, Sess and Cirkin for the left side.
I would like Aurier to be sold and a quality RB brought in with Foyth and maybe KWP as new RB backup.
Winks has far more ability than Sissoko (IMO ) and with the right set up and players around could be very good. It very much depends on the system. Right now I suspect he is playing according to the instructions given him by the manager.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think most if not all fans think the same.

If Barca are genuinely interested and there's a possibility to strike a deal where we get one or two players in return (Coutinho and Semedo?) then it's something that really needs to be considered.

Chuck Rakitic in too and we've got a deal!

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

That's bound to happen. You can see the potential and think you can coach the attitude but you will often be wrong.

We've been wrong too often...and to the point where it's now 'a thing'. We seem unable to 'light the fire' in a decent amount of really talented young players - even Dele's gone off the boil to a point where he seems like he can't be arsed to roll his sleeves up and get 'stuck in'.

Clarke's in the running to become the next on the list and Foth's dallying with it too. Where is the coaching of the transition from prospect to player going wrong? It's been happening across numerous managers apart from when we had Tim Sherwood, Sir Les and Chris Ramsey running things, where we seemingly got a lot more right.

 

[Dier Hard]

By the same token, Aurier also needed a rest as he played as many minutes as Lloris did post-restart

The thing with the asymmetrical fullbacks is that, so far, there's always been something preventing the system working: for Poch it was the combination of injuries to Foyth or Davies at various times for the buildup role coupled with an unmotivated Danny Rose in the attacking role, while for the ubermensch it was nobody being available for the attacking role at LB so Davies and Aurier were guaranteed to play every single game

Also, it has to be said, there's a potential flaw in the system. Say the opponents have a LB who is weak against pace, which makes playing Aurier at RB the obvious choice...but because it's the obvious choice it can potentially be countered, similar to how a couple of seasons ago a few teams had someone marking Trippier high up the pitch so he couldn't get forward and nullified that flank pretty effectively

Yeah I'm not overly keen on FB situation/ tactics.

I think in general having a FB who drops in as a third CB certainly helps us defensively but we become so predictable and easy to suss out offensively that it can nullify any threat down the right hand side as they know Aurier will always be the one being passed too.

I'd rather either a flat back four with Davies and Tanganga/ Foyth, to then give attacking players more licence to stay forward, or go back to the prime Rose-Walker era of having FBs who essentially acted as a secondary winger. That of course requires a proper DM to cover their runs but I think I'd rather have two FBs who are similar in the XI, whether that be from a defensive or offensive standpoint.

 

[The Huddlefro]

I think Jose will work with Davies, Sess and Cirkin for the left side.
I would like Aurier to be sold and a quality RB brought in with Foyth and maybe KWP as new RB backup.
Winks has far more ability than Sissoko (IMO ) and with the right set up and players around could be very good. It very much depends on the system. Right now I suspect he is playing according to the instructions given him by the manager.

Based on Jose’s comments, KWP is off. Looks like his ship has sailed with us which is a shame. I see us getting one RB and maybe keeping Foyth as a backup utility player, which I fear will do little for his career, but might work out ok for us.

As far as Winks goes, I was a long time advocate but I’ve gone off the boil a bit with him the last season. He’s talented and hard working but lacks the technical and positional skill to play at the base of the midfield in the PL, he’s too easily pressed and while taking the safe option could be something he’s being told to do, I also think there’s an element of him just not being comfortable receiving the ball under pressure and doing something meaningful with it enough of the time. Very happy with him as a squad player and I think he suits European and international football more because you get more time on the ball and he can get his head up and keep the ball moving, which is very much his game. In the PL though be just gets pressured too easily.

If NDombele is finished then we need Gedson to step up massively (who knows, he’s hardly played, he is young still) and/or to make an addition for someone to play alongside New DM.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Yeah I'm not overly keen on FB situation/ tactics.

I think in general having a FB who drops in as a third CB certainly helps us defensively but we become so predictable and easy to suss out offensively that it can nullify any threat down the right hand side as they know Aurier will always be the one being passed too.

I'd rather either a flat back four with Davies and Tanganga/ Foyth, to then give attacking players more licence to stay forward, or go back to the prime Rose-Walker era of having FBs who essentially acted as a secondary winger. That of course requires a proper DM to cover their runs but I think I'd rather have two FBs who are similar in the XI, whether that be from a defensive or offensive standpoint.

Totally agree.

If we must play with a 3 , featuring a tucked in FB, it needs to be alternated during the game and Aurier ain't nearly good enough or committed enough to play 'tucked in'. Foyth could do it, if he cut out the naive mistakes.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Yeah I'm not overly keen on FB situation/ tactics.

I think in general having a FB who drops in as a third CB certainly helps us defensively but we become so predictable and easy to suss out offensively that it can nullify any threat down the right hand side as they know Aurier will always be the one being passed too.

I'd rather either a flat back four with Davies and Tanganga/ Foyth, to then give attacking players more licence to stay forward, or go back to the prime Rose-Walker era of having FBs who essentially acted as a secondary winger. That of course requires a proper DM to cover their runs but I think I'd rather have two FBs who are similar in the XI, whether that be from a defensive or offensive standpoint.

I think we were addressing the issue of Aurier being to suss out in our last few games, as Davies was playing like a libero down the left linking up with midfield and attack (which is how Foyth played at RB under Poch, for the record) but the real weakness with Aurier is his discipline is what makes him easy to counteract, both in terms of overrunning it and ending up in no man's land and being far too high up the pitch that others (usually Sissoko) have to cover the gaps

Rotating FBs can work if we suss the opponents right, after all Poch had various setups based on the opponents sitting back so needing to be stretched (Walker & Rose both started), needing to retain possession to carve out an opening (Davies) or the teams being weak at the far post (Trippier), but if we don't suss it we get a repeat of those games where Aurier's lack of discipline lost us possession and also exposed central midfield at the same time

 

[KingHotspur]

For me, Winks is a decent little player in the right situation, but he needs to be playing alongside the right midfielder, he is not a DM but is a useful squad option. Playing alongside Sissoko, Winks is asked to play a more defensive role and gets dragged down to Sissoko`s level. Sissoko is the root cause of a lot of our midfield problems imo, he is scared of the ball and afraid to play any kind of difficult pass through lack of confidence / ability and the fear of looking stupid. 19 times out of 20 Sissoko will play the safe and simple pass 5 yards backwards or sideways, he kills the momentum and every attack he is involved in by being overly cautious or simply lacking the ability. On the rare occasions he ventures within sight of goal he shietes himself and always fluffs his lines, we need better as a first choice player.

Sissoko is popular but I don’t know why

He’s a horrible footballer, yes he tries hard but technically he’s awful. And like you say he’s the cause of a lot of midfield problems and it makes his team mates look bad too