So far in all competitions this season Arsenal's record is as follows: 6 wins 2 draws 3 defeats Not spectacular by any means, but certainly not what I would constitute a crisis. Can we please stop buying into the media's constant negativity regarding Arsenal. Our makeshift defence last night coped well for the most part (especially in the second half) and lets not forget that a similarly patched up Man U defence conceded three tuesday night.... Finally, congratulations to The Ox for his first Champions league goal and to Santos as well.
The crisis of a couple of weeks ago has abated slightly but we are still not out of the woods yet. It has very little to do with the media but more the self induced problems created by the Board and the manager. This weeends NL derby will tell us better where we are going. A few of Wengers ridiculous ideas have to go, i.e; The so called 'wage structure' which rewards mediocrity - pay the best players the most and the others less. The over 30 only 1 year rubbish which has seen experienced players leave prematurely eg W Gallas Zonal marking it never works. Resting players in CL games resulting in failure to win the group. It's not rocket science, so get on with it.
I agree with you on your points. After watching yesterdays game it was clear to see, we have a little way to go before we settle down in a proper rhythm. Admonista, you have to understand we are in a fragile situation and clearly we are playing below par and are low in confidence. If we continue with this progress then we'll be fine, otherwise it could get bad.
I understand fully the fragility of our current situation, but I feel that some people have over reacted to our slow start to the season. The Man U and Blackburn matches were terrible, but I feel that we have responded well to both of those setbacks. We did enough to get past a tough Udinese side (had we crashed out to them I would consider the crisis talk far more legitimate, but we didn't so I don't) and into the C League proper. Now we have to look to build a bit of momentum. A draw or a win at Totnum would certainly help "spur" us into a good run of results. Side note: the last time we won three or more games in a row was in the middle of January, a positive sign that should be recognized. I do agree in part with most of your observations Tuffnell, but I will highlight one issue. Our wage structure, while annoying, is necessary to hold on to the younger talents. We simply could not compete in a bidding war with the likes of city or Chelsea so we have to lock down our talented younger players by paying them a more than would be expected. Sure we have some disasters (denilson) but also some successes such as Song. I suspect that as the debt burden becomes less of an issue we will see our wage structure change in order to accomodate our better players on the higher wages we need to be competitive, (although we will never be able to compete with the mega rich clubs unless the financial fair play rules actually work as they are supposed to, which is still a major uncertainty)
Yes i understand the point you are making about younger players but if it means we cannot hold on to our best players it is not a viable strategy. Selling our best players is never going to win us anything. What is the point of paying younger players over the market rate to get them if we can't hold on to them when they mature. You can't buck the market and so far we have haven't. If we can't pay RVP what he is worth we will lose him and why? Just to pay say Djourou, Gibbs, and Coquelin more than they ares worth?
Your faith does you great credit Adhominista and I do mean it sincerely. As you have accepted, we are still fragile particularly at the back and still very inadequate in dead ball situations. That this has been a malaise in excess of six months now, one would have thought that someone would have made efforts to rectify this problem by now. Yes we did well to win three games in a row but in all competitions and against sides which are not supposedly in our league. Shrewsbury are effectively a Division 4 side, Bolton rock bottom in the EPL and Olympiakos was not a fancied team either yet ran us close. Before we can count on another three wins in succession, let alone they being all in the EPL, we need to ensure that we have a defensive strategy and that we do not waste our chances at the front. It's all very well believing that scoring goals can achieve victories but letting them in too can be hugely costly. I have to disagree with you on our wages structure which I feel to be wrong simply because when these young talents mature, we won't be able to pay them enough to stay. As I gather from at least two sources, the links of which I have placed on this board sometime in the past fortnight, this policy is down to Arsene. It really hasn't worked out, has it? If anything we are just nurturing young talents for the now ' big ' clubs. The management of our beloved club may believe that it was all important to get everything right with their business model but it is equally as important to get the matters on the pitch correct. It seems the business model had taken priority over the sporting initiative. Without the latter, the former won't work since it is the latter that ensures the bulk of our income stream. If in doubt all you need consider is the level of tickets going on general sale of late which Arsene very conveniently reasons this as being a factor of the recession. Interesting I think that their return should coincide with our least competitive period for years.
I said it a while back and I'll say it again. If we can sort out our defensive organisation, then we're good for a top 4 spot
I think we've been quite lucky in who've we've faced so far this season. Swansea, Bolton, Shrewsbury and Olympiakos all at home already. Only one of those matches (Bolton) was convincing. Any tough games we've had we've been very poor - Blackburn, Liverpool and obviously United. Plus the Dortmund game could've been drastically different, their finishing was worse than ours! The Udinese away tie was the stand-out performance of the season so far. Having said that, it's nice to be winning and to have a little optimism. I'm just not holding much out for the season yet, it seems like every game is going to be nail-biting and tense! EDIT: I should really read the whole thread first because most of my points have been said...
We have many issues to resolve and some good points made on here already, I think more balance is certainly required on the wages front and Robin is correct in stating we need change on this front I feel. We have to take the positives without being overconfident, with Tommy V coming back and Per alonside him I think it could be the making of a great CB partnership so I am happy with that still to come. I thought Santos looked very strong and was not easily pushed off the ball like Gibbs can be, he needs much more defensive discipline but he looks promising. He also looked like he needs more work on stamina and fitness, this should come in the weeks ahead. 3 wins are very welcome and if we could pull off another one this weekend it would lift the whole club and the supporters after our torrid start. I think the lads can keep that clown Ade quiet for the match, I am hoping RVP might score and rub his nose in it and show him what a quality footballer is all about.
I suppose my view on football (and life in general) is that it is preferable to be optimistic and occassionally disappointed rather than pessimistic and occassionally vindicated. It has certainly be tough to maintain this viewpoint over the past 8 months so any positive progress makes me happy. Although the last three victories have come against teams we should be able to handle easily I will say (cliche alert!!) that a team can only beat who is put in front of them. Considering the pressure the team has been under recently, I feel that the players have responded well. I would also point out that we should not be so quick to dismiss Olympiacos. Man U struggling to a draw against Basle reinforces the old truism that there are no easy games in Europe. A lesson Man City have also learned in recent weeks. The wage structure is a difficult issue. I feel that it has been a necessary evil due to our move to the Emirates and the debt we incurred because of this. Only the mega rich clubs can afford to throw around ridiculous wages and unfortunately we are not in the same position. I have no doubt that if we can navigate this rough patch and continue finish around the top of the league (with maybe a cup or two) over the next few seasons we will be in a position then to offer competitive wages to the top players. I think (hope) this process will begin with a significantly improved contract given to RvP in an attempt to keep the Man City and Chelsea jackals at bay. The fact that we have been challenging for titles and trophies (admittedly falling short due to not having the mental strength/squad depth/experience, etc) is an indication that the wage structure has not been a complete failure.
Who is john? The point was to hopefully stimulate a debate about Arsenal's season thus far that is not framed entirely through a negative lens. Or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say.
I applaud your view on football and life. However what has been happening to the team since moving to the Emirates can only be described as incomprehensible. The Stadium debt servicing is stated as £20M per year over 20 years. This is more than covered by the increase in revenue over Highbury (£60m over £37M). So there is no problem there to cause a wage cap. Total turnover is now in excess of £200M up from approx £115M in 2005 so this should be enough to cover competitive wages for top players. (Wages have more than doubled since 2005 and we have cose to £100M in the bank) So unless losses have been incurred in property dealings or some rogue trader has squandered (and this is not reflected in the annual accounts) things should be rosier than we are being told. The 'wage cap' is alleged to be down to Wengers 'philosophy' pure and simple, we could afford to pay RVP £120k to £150k if it meant we would keep him but AW probably wont. The bottom line is a few years ago we were watching the Invincibles and now we are watching mediocrity and it is difficult to understand why considering what we are paying for the priviledge.
I'l go in part with the latter but we are really not out of the woods yet and should recognise our weaknesses which hopefully our manager will address. I would also add my friend that there are no easy games in the EPL either. Were this not so, we would have triumphed over Newcastle and Blackburn. The fact remains that having played six games, we have a negative goal difference and lost half of those six fixtures. the away game to Utd will of course have had a weighty effect on the statistics but it should also be noted that we have fallen by our own hand, not least in having players sent off. These are very expensive lessons which we can ill afford. But the defensive issue remains and there is this far no sign of Arsene Wenger doing anything about it. If this is not rectified we would only make the Top 4 through a combination of good fortune for us and sheer bad luck for our main opponents. There are other issues too such as our injury record. It is frankly nothing but lamentable. And yet again here, Arsene refuses to accept that any fault lies within. Let me leave you with a small thought. If van Persie is injured, the one who is next in line to lead our attack is Marouane Chamakh. Sobering thought that. Well, we have a very wealthy man as our owner and a super rich being with nearly 30% of the share capital but who yet is unable to obtain a place on the board. That our main owner has remained silent on his intentions is one thing, the near 1/3 stakeholder is unlikely to place any funds with is unless his own part in the club is ascertained. We are so close to being able to compete with our three main rivals but are almost prevented from doing so. I'm sorry again my friend but I really do beg to differ since we have only challenged twice since the start of 2006 for trophies. By that I mean getting to the finals of any competition. In all others we have fallen at the various stages and in the EPL, this has been by late February or early March which is three months from the end of the season. Falling at 3/4 distance is not a credible challenge. Arsene's claims of being in all four competitions ring somewhat hollow since as everyone knows, we are unlikely to make it to the finish. To me that doesn't amount to making a credible challenge. If anything it's just flattering to deceive. Warmest regards
To which if I may please my friend, I would add that it is incomprehensible to understand why it is the supporters are being asked to pay for a road to nothing by way of success. A road to nowhere except a forlorn hope that the current asset base of the club and it's accounts will look strong, thus possibly boosting the share price. I would offer a counter to this which has already shown itself in the returned tickets of late. If the club does not perform on the pitch, the financial stability that our owner and management hope for will be eroded simply because the paying customers will vote with their feet and their chequebook. A football club is successful first and foremost because it is getting the business done on the pitch. Lose this and you run the risk of losing everything else.
In addition to what you have so eloquently stated, we have been since 2006 paying for the manager's pet project which is to try to stand the football world on it's head by continuing the experiment he started at Monaco, namely to show that he can win things with a team of 'young' players something he has singularly failed in thus far. The Man U result and subsequent recent signings have hopefully steered him away from this folly but the jury is still out.
I'm afraid to say you may well be right Mr T. If Vermaelen hadn't been injured Arsene would not have covered our defence in respect of the summer's transfers. As yet the task of ensuring that we are able to keep out the goals is far from complete and if Arsene had his abstemious ways, we would be looking for players under £5m or thereabouts. Seems Arsene is out to prove what he said to the board around and during the time of the coming of our stadium, that he would see to it that the spend would be kept low and yet the team would be in a position to challenge for honours. I suppose you could say that getting 3/4 of the way round the track to be a form of challenging but the reality is, it's all show and no substance. He seems to have a need to prove that what he says or does is right. It will never end, will it? Well, except for when he goes. I hate saying this but he is not in for changing anything if he can. Any decent manager would have appreciated that defensive work was needed. Anyone but Arsene that is. You should hear what Frank Mclintock has to say about our current team. Frank as you know is the latest of a long line of observers, many of whom are or have been associated with our club and that includes the players who have called for Arsene to introduce defensive coaching but the man refuses. People talk of Bendtner's ego. I wonder how Arsene's compares...
4 points against the wages argument: 1) We were able to pay competitive wages at Highbury 2) We pay our kids far too much. Pay them less and pay the grown ups more .. as it should be. 3) How comes we had the 3rd highest wage bill in the league until Citeh came along 4) The stadium debt has not hamstrung us in any way shape or form. The sale of the flats has paid off a considerable chunk of that debt leaving us with circa £100m of debt the interest of which is a pittance .. relatively speaking.
Ok, lets say we pay Van Persie £120K a week in his new deal, after that how do we deal with the likes of Walcott,Song,Vermaelen,Sagna and players like that?
