100% agree with that and will argue with anyone who suggests otherwise. That message needs to stop getting lost in the quagmire of anger.
I'm sure you'd agree that no one should be judged by the colour of their skin ... ... sadly that's precisely what happened with the this recent event is America. We can't be sure the police officer is guilty of that but those who declared his actions racially motivated definitely are. I'm totally anti-racist but believe it has to work both ways, without balance there's no chance of continuing the progress we've made in my lifetime.
It would take someone far cleverer than me to confirm, deny or even debate whether the George Floyd incident was racist, definitively. What's indisputable is a guy was murdered needlessly so I'm not going to lose any sleep over the policeman getting what's coming to him.
There's only one person who knows, which is why we really shouldn't simply decide it is if it suits our agenda. It's clear that deciding it was a racially motivated, because the officer is white, is wrong. If we decide a black man killed a white man because of his colour that's wrong and it has to work both ways otherwise there's no equality. Having a fight in the street, where someone bangs his head and dies is a tragedy. A trained protector of the law, and public servant, behaving like this is inexcusable ... ... he deserves everything he gets.
This is what you have been doing There is no doubt he's not fit to be a police officer, let alone anything other than a monster in uniform. Your point is also valid, it is feasible he was just a violent man ... However, it is not relevant as it also invalidates the fact that the criminal justice system in America is institutionally racist.
I think it's easy to get fixated on the most extreme views of any political entity or movement. I'd probably agree with most of what you've written, and I'm all on board the BLM idea of black people being treated fairly and given help to overcome the many decades of inequality that has left them ghetto-ised and disproportionately poorer than their white counterparts on average. So if it helps, I think your views would be welcomed within BLM, because 'meaningful reform' is the aim. The police being held to account for disproportionate violence (which is part of a cycle that leads to lower black representation in the met, for example) against black people when being arrested vs what happens to white people in the same situation, being one of the first ones. It's 2.5x higher. slightly off topic - Capitalism is such a mad one and I agree with you 100%, reform rather than 'abolish' it. On the one hand I have done well in a capitalist society, but I grew up in absolute dirt-poor poverty up here and had to struggle until my 30's because of it. Most of the people I grew up with have been kept down by capitalism, so I can't get fixated on the benefits too much. If I hadn't have been willing to work on my own business in my lunch breaks, and in my own spare time, go to bed at 1am, wake up at 5am and then go to work, etc, then it wouldn't have happened. Capitalism didn't give me anything, and a socialist government in the 21st century wouldn't have taken it away, nor would it have had the power or ability to last more than a term if they disincentivised people from making their lives better through hard work. But it is very clear to me, particularly in the job that I do, that there are elements of a ponzi scheme in the unfettered capitalism that some people want, and that largely, we have. We've seen what happens when that house of cards collapses (in 2008), the next one could be worse. We've also had a shot across the bows (imo) with Covid-19 which despite being awful, is nowhere near as bad as it could have been if the virus was more deadly. In that scenario, the world shuts down for an extended period and millions of people in western countries would have nothing to fall back on. Hundreds of thousands of companies would go to the wall, and there's a solid chance that the ponzi scheme would collapse. But despite that, I don't think many people truly want to abolish capitalism, they just want more meaningful quality of life improvements for people currently scraping by at the bottom, or who work just as hard as anyone else, but because they aren't born into the right circumstances, have no choice but to contribute more towards making the 1% wealthier than the other 99%.
There is only 1 person who knows for certain as I said before - and that's the policeman that killed him! A lad I used to work with was set upon by a black lad a few years ago in Newcastle - it was a pissed up thing which had zero racial inference at all. Yet there were people calling him a racist as he kicked 7 bells out of the lad!! The police even told him they were arresting him for a "racially motivated attack." A white person who is fighting a black person isn't always racist! Think this is the whole point which is swallowed up as everyone has automatically assumed that the guy is racist without knowing one way or the other
Yeah I abhor the brand of capitalism we have but firmly believe that with tweaks we would live in a far more pleasant world but getting past greed is difficult. If what you say is true, BLM need to get their policy straight and they need to communicate it properly. I'm hoping the cloud of anger that exists across the spectrum subsides in the coming months and people can have reasonable debate. At the end of the day we all want the same ****ing thing, a happy life with a fair crack at living it properly. Everyone deserves that regardless of colour, gender, orientation etc. Hopefully we can all get behind that in the near future.
Not once, you're seeing what you want to see again. "However, it is not relevant." Of course it is. It invalidates nothing. You can't claim its racially motivated without proof, end of story.
I think the point people are making is that the stats also back up that the police treat black people more violently in America than they do white people. When people see an officer treating someone without any regard for their human life at all, it's hard not to feel that it's at least partly based on that subconscious racism that anyone who has spent much time in America will tell you is just off the charts. I once had a taxi driver refuse to drive me to my rented home in New Jersey because it was a 'black neighbourhood' (it was a normal, well-to-do neighbourhood where some of the residents were black). I've been warned about going to certain places in NYC. I've had all kinds of **** told to me by white people about black people, and none of it was anything other than their idea of what it was like. So this guy may have just been a bad apple, but there are so many bad apples in such a trusted role of responsibility, that it's hard not to look at that pattern of behaviour and think there is at least some subconscious bias. Just asking this guy will only get one answer. He's never going to say 'you know what, maybe I would have let a white person up 4 minutes earlier and they'd still be alive!' is he?
Oh ... and you write "we really shouldn't simply decide it is if it suits our agenda." Which is what are doing here, it suits your agenda to question if the incident was racially motivated ...quite a few times actually where you're seeing what you want to see again Let me remind you what is relevant: This particular case has highlighted this
No it suits common law that you can't accuse someone of a racially motivated attack without proof. I'm not questioning the motive because no one will know what it was until it goes to court. Even if America is the most systematically nation in the world it can't change that. My agenda is that the police officer deserves everything he gets as I've said all the way through. I don't need someone like you to 'remind me what is relevant' . You're deciding this was racially motivated based on the colour of the officers skin.
No one can argue with that, including the reaction of utter condemnation for the absolute inhumanity But it isn't is it? You are consistently saying he might not be a racist The image is the same: a white police officer stands with his boot on the neck of a black man pleading for his life until he dies. This is highly potent as a symbol of continuing police brutality and a reminder of the inhumanity of racism Whether he once donated to charity or was nice to his mother or even has a black friend! ...is completely irrelevant
Absolutely agree - there is no way he's going to say "Yeah I left him struggling to breathe because he's black" Not sure about the statistics thing mind as more white people were killed in america over the past 5 years than black by the police! Although the White:black ratio is (obviously) weighted massively in favour of whites (I believe around 75% of the US population is white - may be wrong though)
That's because there's no proof that he is. You're judging the officer because of the colour of his skin. If the colours were reversed would you make the same claim ....
it is completely irrelevant in the context of BLM. I cannot fathom any other way to put it and I'm genuinely perplexed
The image ... of a white police officer standing with his boot on the neck of a black man pleading for his life until he dies is a highly potent visual symbol of police brutality and racism
All of what you've said is fairly close to my opinion because it sounds like you understand that the raw number is obviously going to be skewed by population %. But yeah, the ratio is way out for black people, close to twice as likely to be killed by police vs population %. The problem is that it solves nothing for other people to say 'well black people are more violent' when violent crime is a reflection of how they are basically kept as an underclass. People in poorer areas are more violent than people in more affluent areas (3/4 of the top violent offending boroughs in London are also in the top 10 most deprived, and there are tons of studies that suggest poor areas are more violent than more affluent ones, even if just because rich people move away from them!) and people who are black are more likely to live in those areas because of the aformentioned centuries of being treated with outright hostility. For me, trying to say that black people have only got themselves to blame for that increased risk of violence is to ignore that nobody wins by denying that race has previously been a factor in why they were treated badly, and being treated badly by authorities of any kind is going to continue this cycle of mistrust and violence. That's why I also think it's important for us here in the North East that we don't forget how much positive impact the BLM movement can have for us. Showing that we can collectively stop unfairness in how people distribute money, or how they ignore that we were brought to our knees by the death of heavy industry and disproportionately impacted in the North East by decisions taken in the past. Those are not totally irrelevant to what BLM stands for, and that's why I also try to bring attention to those issues when I speak to people in government or official capacities. It ain't 'us and them', basically. The BLM campaign just has more relevance right now because of the life and death violence that is being caught on camera, and the efforts to suppress it by genuine racists in America and (to some degree) here.
That's right, even if it's 100% the reason he'd be insane to say that. But it doesn't mean it was 100% why he acted that way. Just as with the Reading knifeman. I've seen people say the motive was anti-gay, anti-white, anti-British, etc. But it may be simply that the man was off his nut. This police officer might be a bully in a uniform who likes throwing his weight around, who knows but him.
