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Under safeguarding rules the right to confidentiality is over ruled if someone is in danger of harming themself or others or is likely to engage in law breaking behaviour.
The carers had a duty of care under the law to notify line managers who then call together multi agency meetings to assess the concerns.
As his parents were not informed it looks as though nothing was done but obviously I do not know.

 

As is your right. My opinions have changed on capital punishment, I used to be fully against it and, I dunno, I'm still not really totally in favour of it because it's a complex thing with lots of moral, ethical and legal issues and complications, and it still doesn't really feel like the sort of thing a truly civilised society should be engaging in; but I think, are we really in a truly civilised society? And in certain exceptional cases of really atrocious crimes where guilt is undeniable then I'm not sure that I'd oppose it or baulk at it, should it be imposed. I find the argument with this guy that because he's mentally impaired or has learning difficulties that he should just be hospitalised a bit too much of a simplification, not every individual with such issues thinks about, wants to, or does end up pushing and throwing people off high buildings, far from it. I'd be interested to hear your take anyway ...

 

You couldn’t execute someone who was declared mentally unfit anyway, so your point about capital punishment is moot.

 

Not sure I agree with you, yes confidentiality is over ruled to a degree but I've never known it to trigger a situation where the parents are automatically informed. Surely that is dependent on what role his parents played in his care and well-being, or at what age he is classed as an adult within those rules. Just because you have those thoughts, does not automatically mean you will engage in law breaking behaviour as you call it, surely that's what further assessement is about. I also find the term 'law breaking behaviour' not fit for use as a diagnosis.

 

During your lifetime, you will know someone close, who will have mental health issues, I just hope it's not yourself, and that the authorities don't impose a death sentence on you, due to a chemical imbalance within your brain or a neurological disorder. It's no wonder these people can't get the help they need, when that's your thought process as a supposed sane individual.

 

I can only speak from my experience in schools and kids homes (with up 18 yr olds) and we have to inform the safeguarding lead officer if a person we are working with says they are going to harm themselves, others or break the law. If we do not do so we can be disciplined and or reported to the police.
For example, if a child tells he is going to stab someone who has pissed him off and I do not inform the safeguarding officer and the child does stab them I can be prosecuted.
If I report it and a meeting is convened and it is concluded that the risk is minimal but it happens no one is criminslly liable as all the safeguarding guidelines have been followed.

It is complicated and can lead to people being held who have committed no crime.
I am just surprised that the care workers sppeared to have said nothing in this case even though they recorded him say what he planned to do.

 

I'm not disputing anything you are saying here, they are internal affairs. I think you've gone astray slightly here, the point I was raising was in regards to his parents. That's not been answered or covered in your reply. I think the conversation just between the two of us, shows how incrediably complicated these situations can get. I certainly wouldn't be casting aspertions towards his carers until the full facts are revealed. They may well have been aware of his thought process, but it will dependent on those further higher level meetings, and his past medical history in regards to his actions and thought process. Sadly hindsight is a wonderful thing. Do we know who he was with on this day at Tate Modern, and how he come about being alone to carry out the act?

 

I agree...it is very complicated...didn't mean to be condemning to the carers, just surprised tbh...terrible thing for them to come to terms with too.
They could be double guessing themselves everyday...what if is a horrible wuestion to have to ask yourself in that circumstance.

 

I agree with you. It's especially difficult to know via the media what really occured internally. So many questions to be answered, I've got dozens of questions of my own in regards to it.

 

In your experience would you say his ASD is any mitigating factor in the planning and committing of his crime? What I mean is I've come across all sorts of characters with ASD but their conscious/self-aware actions have never been a result of their ASD, so I was interested in your experience - have you known the ASD trait itself to be the motivator? I'd say the ASD would have very little if anything to do with his chosen actions. That's not to say he doesn't have ASD, I'm sure he does if it's diagnosed, but a guy who plans to kill a child and smiles afterwards showing some awareness of what he's doing, is not doing it because of his autism but because he's a sick fck.

 

Reading between the lines, I have the same illness or something very similar. You’re correct, we don’t all consider launching somebody from a building. The same mental illness affects people in many different ways, though.

The services should be held just as guilty as the lad who done it though when he’d already told them of his thoughts/plans. It sounds to some degree he’s been failed by the system which is ridiculously common when it comes to mental health.

 

I think I'm hearing what you are saying here. When I reflect on the circumstances, I am finding it odd, that he premeditated it, rather than acted on impulse at the time, due to 'maybe' previous thoughts of commmiting such as act, to which I would say the latter there is not premeditated in the true sense of the word.

 

More than that though, even if it's not completely premeditated I think it's chosen behaviour and I'm not so sure that ASD is a contributor. Btw I have not read about any other mental illness he may have so this isn't a comment on that. It's just in the news article it talks about his autism and sounds like that may be used as a defence.

 

I see what you mean. Trouble is we don't know how accurate the reporting is, in align with medical facts.

 

Tbh mate that is a near impossible question for me to answer.
My knowledge is quite limited but here are a few of my thoughts...

1. ASD displays differently in people.
If a person is supported they can learn to cope with some of the difficulties and use the strengths ASD gives them to excel.

2. High functioning ASD people (this does not mean geniuses!) can be aware they think differently or experience thd world differently but can be supported to cope and to learn skills needed to develop and maintain relationships.

The individual in this case seems to have been high functioning and was aware he was not receiving the support he needed.
Like I said, I ain't an expert, but to me it sounds like he also had some form of mental health issue as well as being ASD and it may have been this that led him to rationalise this act.

People who are ASD can also be ****ers just like those who are not can be but the fact that during his trial (he was in a room with a video link) he turned his back and curled into a ball when the childs family had an impact statement read out suggests that he is not a "evil" person...simply a person with an ASD diagnosis and a mental health problem.
Those with ASD are 4 times more likely to suffer from depression than those without.
Some studies suggest that 70% of all those with ASD also suffer from some form of mental health problem such as depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorder etc. and are more likely to have ADHD (attention deficit snd hyperactivity disorder) or ADD ,(attention deficit disorder).
Without proper care and support it can be a difficult life.
With proper care and support it csn be just as rewarding a life as anyone else.

Sorry its such a long rambling attempt to answer.

 

It's not been mentioned, so I'm going to do it...

I feel sorry for Rebecca Long-Bailey, really surprised she was sacked. Seems to me it was a genuine mistake. I look at it like, I often like posts on here, ok in her case she retweeted, but for me it's more of an acknowledgment sometimes, rather than endorsement of every word. Nowt wrong with naivety sometimes, I suppose the only lesson that can be learned from it is keep aways from twitter but in her case, that's a harsh lesson learned.

 

I was chatting to a friend earlier, it appears anyone with ASD that makes a threat, should be taken seriously. I actually asked about OCD, because it was a thought I had, and yes, they can have repetitive behaviours and routine.

I can only conclude the system failed him, for whatever reasons.

 

The ****s called Bravery yet the cowardly arsehole picks on a 6 year old.

He doesn't deserve keeping, the utter ****.

 

So he's to blame, rather than the system to blame. If you had cancer, you would expect to receive the best medical help. If you broke an arm or a leg, you would expect it to be fixed at an hospital and it would be deemed as inhumane not to. But when someone has mental health, it's fook you, get over it. We don't have the resources. Even when he says he is going to kill. Yet, we can build a 10,000 bed hospital when we need to, to protect shhite heads in Bournemouth, who don't know the meaning of social distancing. In fact in quite a few people's lives this year, bog roll was deemed as more important. Strange world indeed.