This Black lives matter. All lives matter, just cos you happen to be black doesn't make you matter more than anyone else. It should have been about usa police being over forceful, gun happy bullies.
It was too good a chance to pass up mate ... ... arrogant looking white cop trying to arrest a black man and killing him. The fatal flaw in the argument was when they judged the cop by the colour of his skin which is exactly what they're accusing him of ... .... because he's white they just assume that it was racially motivated
Sick to death of this carry on days ago, as for bending the knee ffs words fail me. Who is going to be the footballer who has the balls to stand his ground and say I'm not doing that, bit like James McLean and the Poppy issue years ago. I won't hold my breath.
I keep seeing people quoting bare facts such as 'young black lads are more likely to be stopped and searched'. That doesn't sound fair to me. TBH I don't read up on this stuff and don't know why but I did wonder about why black lads should be searched. As a pragmatist I'd have to say the police would be looking for things you can secrete about your person. So, probably not stolen safes or farm machinery. No, I'd imagine it would be knives, drugs, stolen phones, fake ID/no ID. Would this be the kind of things black lads would have ... ... I've no idea, perhaps someone could tell me.
In all honesty I haven't looked at the numbers in the past 20 years but back when we covered it in 2001 the metropolitan police were still pretty guilty of double standards. You were 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched if you were black than if you were white and the percentage of those who were stopped who had illegal materials on them was slightly lower with black people than white people (the samples are entirely warped as it's likely white people were only searched when they had actual reason to suspect them of having something but black people were just systematically searched so would be less likely to have offending materials). Now those reports were from the late 90's when, following the Stephen Lawrence enquiry, they were under close scrutiny. I've not got numbers for if it had changes since then but wouldn't want to assume it hasn't just for the sake of it.
As you say, searching black lads would produce less results if it was without suspicion. What I don't understand is what the metropolitan police officers get out of stopping people pointlessly. If its purely out of racism surely it would really boring quite quickly.
I don't think it's overt racism, probably more subconscious tbh. Like, if they see a white lad they might not think much of it, but when they see a black lad they're a lot more likely to think "probably up to no good" and stop him. So if I was standing on the street they'd probably drive past without a thought, but if I was black they might notice me and think I'm suspicious and maybe selling drugs. They wouldn't be doing it deliberately because they don't like black people, but more because subconsciously something tells them black lads might be up to no good.
The thing that’s different, in the UK they can stop a car, or stop and search with no reason. In the US, they can’t. They can’t just spot check you etc they must be able to quote cause. I’m not sure if that makes the numbers better or worse, but there’s so many factors. If you took a California, there are gonna be far more patrols in downtown LA, or Compton, or Oakland than there would be in the likes of Venice Beach etc, so of course, that would skewer black v white numbers not due to race, but due to the population mix. It’s not as simple as ‘them v us’
I think we have it about right. They can tell you to stop and ask you questions but if they want to search you they need reasonable grounds - and the fact you've refused to answer questions cannot be used for those grounds. Below is from the gov website (i looked it up as it was still "reasonable suspicion" back when i was last involved in it). Police powers to stop and search: your rights The police can stop and question you at any time - they can search you depending on the situation. A police community support officer (PCSO) must be in uniform when they stop and question you. A police officer doesn’t always have to be in uniform but if they’re not wearing uniform they must show you their warrant card. Stop and question: police powers A police officer might stop you and ask: what your name is what you’re doing in the area where you’re going You don’t have to stop or answer any questions. If you don’t and there’s no other reason to suspect you, then this alone can’t be used as a reason to search or arrest you. Stop and search: police powers A police officer has powers to stop and search you if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect you’re carrying: illegal drugs a weapon stolen property something which could be used to commit a crime, such as a crowbar You can only be stopped and searched without reasonable grounds if it has been approved by a senior police officer. This can happen if it is suspected that: serious violence could take place you’re carrying a weapon or have used one you’re in a specific location or area Before you’re searched Before you’re searched the police officer must tell you: their name and police station what they expect to find, for example drugs the reason they want to search you, for example if it looks like you’re hiding something why they are legally allowed to search you that you can have a record of the search and if this isn’t possible at the time, how you can get a copy Removing clothing: police powers A police officer can ask you to take off your coat, jacket or gloves. The police might ask you to take off other clothes and anything you’re wearing for religious reasons - for example a veil or turban. If they do, they must take you somewhere out of public view. If the officer wants to remove more than a jacket and gloves they must be the same sex as you.
An interesting point to me is this bit: You can only be stopped and searched without reasonable grounds if it has been approved by a senior police officer. This can happen if it is suspected that: serious violence could take place you’re carrying a weapon or have used one you’re in a specific location or area My reading of that is that a senior officer can approve the police searching everyone in an area of their choice. You can see how that could become controversial...
Yeah, they can’t just stop you in US. They have to justify it. They can’t just pull a car for a spot check for example. You can ask why they stopped you, and if not valid can refuse details, but mad. Always thought you wouldn’t object if you’re doing nowt wrong. Last time I got stopped I was fuming, I was eating a burrito to be fair and he just gave me a mild pep talk I’ve never had issue with the policing in this country, I respect them, even when I used to get harrassed before ANPR as I always liked certain cars.
"My reading of that is that a senior officer can approve the police searching everyone in an area of their choice. You can see how that could become controversial." Definitely controversial, yes. Definitely not racist.
Absolutely. If I’m walking down a street, innocently at 2am say, and there’s been a burglary reported, then regardless of skin colour I’d be a justified suspect.
I used to do police station call outs (back in 2007) and actions against the police (in 2008/9) and overall I'm very positive about the police. They were just decent people trying to do a job that genuinely matters in the best way they can. That said they have, like all jobs, got their fair share of the lazy, feckless, racist and downright poor workers. I'm pretty sure I'd co-operate fully with the police if they asked me to do so but I respect why some people have legitimate reasons for not feeling that way and like the fact they can. I worked with a few clients who co-operated with the police only to have an officer basically harass them without evidence and with a couple of them it became pretty serious.
There was a lad walking through Reading the other day ... ... I wish the police had stopped and searched him tbh.
Oh yeah, I'd guess it's mostly used for events (like a football match or the like) but like all powers will need to be logged and reviewed as to how it's being used. My guess is that if there was a hint it was actually used to systematically search ethnic minorities in certain areas we'd know about it by now.
In all honesty the police are stretched all over. I really doubt senior police officers would be authorising something this serious just to cheese off a bunch of innocent black lads. In fact, written down, it looks ridiculous.
