Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad). According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."
You can talk about alternative translations and the wrong message being put out, but can you drop the claims of propaganda and spin, please? The official translation of Ahmadinejad's statement, by his own people, was the one that included the "wiped off the map" statement. His own website ran it, too. It still has it, in fact: http://www.president.ir/en/?search=&querystring=wiped off the map&search.x=0&search.y=0
بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود
QUOTE=Jack Bauer;1389459]Allahu Akbar[/QUOTE] or الله أكبر
That's wonderful TFWNN, but the official translation by his own people led to any misunderstanding that arose.
Wait what? Maybe its my android device but im having trouble actually finding where in that link he says theu must be wiped off the face of the map. All I can see is it saying the Zionist regime faces a deadend.
""O dear Imam (Khomeini)! You said the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map. I should say that your illuminating remark and cause is going to come true today."
Now that doesn't make any sense, How can you wipe a regime off the map? And as has been stated, by academics, the idiom for "wipe off the map" doesn't exist in Persian. They have obviously mistranslated something there without knowing fully what the translation implies
And yet it's still on his website. It may be a misunderstanding, but it's one of his own creation. It's certainly not some propaganda war launched by his opponents.
They certainly aren't quoting this, they are quoting a speech he made where he certainly made no remark about wiping them off the map but that the regime should be wiped from time.
It's the same speech, Jack. The link that you provided to the NY Times actually refers to it, funnily enough: "But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive."
where is this translation? it doesnt appear to be on the link you have posted i posted the arabic so you can get it verified did you know american senators asked for the true translation to be put in a report, this suggestion was blocked?
you do know that this quote by Ethan Bronner in the NY Times has been accused of being false right? not least by The Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele
For some reason the site continued to hold the search address, rather than the story itself. Here's the proper link: http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114&term=wiped off the map I'm not disputing what he actually said, so why would I want to get it verified? Do you have a link to these American senators asking for the translation to be put in a report please, as I'd like to know the context?
That's from the same article, TFWNN. I mentioned that I was quoting it in the comment which you've just quoted.
well if youre not disputing there is no arguement/discussion is there? it was congreesmen not senator, apologies for that From the office of Rep. Dennis Kucinich Congress Votes to Send the President of Iran Before a United Nation's Court While Refusing a New York Times Translation of the President's Remarks WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 20, 2007) - Today the House of Representatives passed H. Con.Res.21, a resolution that pressures the United Nations Security Council to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the 1948 Convention on Genocide and the United Nations Charter because of his alleged calls for the destruction of Israel. "There is reasonable doubt with regard to the accuracy of the translations of President Ahmadinejad's words in this resolution. President Ahmadinejad's speeches can also be translated as a call for regime change, much in the same manner the Bush Administration has called for regime change in Iraq and Iran, making this resolution very ironic," Kucinich said. Kucinich attempted to insert into the Congressional Record two independent translations of the speech from The New York Times and Middle East Media Research Institute, which contain significant differences in the translations of the speech compared to the resolution before the House. However, Members objected formally and the attempt was blocked. "When I learned of these translations, I felt obligated to bring it to the attention of the House. It seems that much has been lost in translation. Members have a right to know of the translations and the refusal to permit them to become a part of the Congressional Record does a disservice to Members." A similar House resolution, H. Res. 523, passed the House two days after the October 26, 2005, speech and before these translations were available. Kucinich supported that resolution in the 109th Congress. "I am unequivocal in my support for the security and survival of Israel, and I do have serious concerns with the remarks made by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran. But, I object to resolutions that lay the groundwork for an offensive, unprovoked war. "The resolution passed by the House today sets a dangerous precedent in foreign affairs. A mistranslation could become a cause of war. The United States House may unwittingly be setting the stage for a war with Iran. "We must make every effort to ascertain the truth because peace in the world may hang in the balance. The only way to definitively know what President Ahmadinejad meant is for the United States to engage in meaningful, diplomatic relations with the country of Iran."
John Steele's article doesn't have any influence on anything that I've said, TFWNN. If anything, it backs up what I'm saying. The quote was interpreted as, "wiped off the map", by Ahmadinejad's own people and a wide variety of neutrals, too. It wasn't misreported as part of some propaganda campaign, as has been suggested.
Dennis Kucinich was right. It doesn't appear that the speech by President Ahmadinejad advocates wiping Israel from the map. Having looked him up I think that it's fair to say that you wouldn't like him much, though!
