Howls of laughter - the irony beggars belief! Once again you are responding person to person - and yes it is ad hominem, instead of focusing on the issue, you focus on the person, baiting and goading them in the process in an attempt to prize out any hole or weakness. Instead of taking an argument on board you pull out one strand and repeatedly flood the board in attempt to use that one element to rebuff the discredit everything else. As an arguing technique it is very effective and you are quite good at it. 'Cept it don't work so well when people see through the technique and therefore have the tools to counter it. Last night I said - fine I will discuss this, but let's do it in private "Smug, I'm not going to allow you to hijack this thread with your reckless diatribe. I am willing to continue to discuss this in a civilised manner" simply to avoid the 2 person handbag fight scenario that litters these sort threads and stay with topic. In reply to this suggestion I get this: I've asked your little pal 4 times to answer why he posted this racist slur and he's ignored me ..." as above and QED, you repeatedly bait and goad with things like..."He's admitted to being a racist" and to me "You've admitted being a racist" and I am too cowardly to discuss it "... he's so embarrassed that he asked me to discuss it in private away from the board" ...not only is that emotive and likely to illicit an equally emotive response, the response is then encapsulated with continuing personal onslaughts while acting the injured person role while distorting meaning. My one and only reason for this is to lay it all out there even though it is also plain to see This isn't just my opinion I have numerous PMs that in one way or another say the same thing Smug, please stop personalising and derailing threads and stay on topic /over and out
There was a Mod warning which I heeded and responded by quoting the OP with a post that was bang on topic. I made a point of not responding to you. You've made a point of going back to a point, before the Mod warning, to dredge up a post of mine. You're now completely ignoring the topic to have yet another pop at me. As I've asked twice now, please stop pestering me.
I like that statue tbh, it doesn't mean I have to like the subject which I don't. It's like an old oil painting I have of Napoleon that I bought at a market in Corsica. I don't like the man but it's a beautiful work of art and an interesting period of history. I never feel subjugated by paintings, lumps of metal or street names, I'm a grown up.
How would we feel about a statue of Thatcher going up in town? Do we think Leeds would have left a statue of Jimmy Saville up? It could be argued both did "great things" but I think most here would agree they're a pair of ****s and I'd be clammering to have then pulled the **** down. Hyperbole but you get the point. There has been a seismic shift in conciousness and the opinion on these people who have statues is that they are no longer deserving of monuments. Fair enough. The Churchill argument is bullshit, he might have had some misfounded archaic beliefs but the guy is a symbol for freedom from tyranny. I'm pretty happy that these things are being looked at on a case by case basis. Taking down the statues isn't erasing history. It's moving into an equitable future.
I'd think it was totally inappropriate as she's from Grantham where I'm sure they'll have one of her. However if she'd personally given huge amounts, of her own money, to the town, my opinion might change. She no doubt disadvantaged some people in Grantham but every PM does that with hundreds of thousands of people. Rhodes was a knacker but Oxford Uni did a deal with the devil and can't just ask for their soul back
*** shudder *** I agree with you although I think it is a significant shift as opposed to a trendy bandwagon, it will not go way and it will drift from media attention and little meaningful change will take place. More likely an incremental shift in a better direction. As for the statues themselves, these folk of antiquity belong to a new history now where the figures of the past are re-examined for their deeds by the moral standard of our time.
Surely that decision lies with the family or the board trustees However, I will state again that unravelling these stories can get very messy and contradictions are everywhere
Oxford Rhodes Foundation to stop funding disadvantaged black students when the statue of Cecil Rhodes comes down as requested by black live matter.The trusts managers will look to sponsor that which will not cause offence from both sides WELL DONE THE ****ERS. its a guy already on a sponsorship that shouted loudest
The unpleasant Irish man, was kicked out of the army for being useless...by Wellington He was an appalling mine owner, insisting kids worked his mines and stopping parliament preventing them. Brought in scabs to break strikes, paid the lowest wages and kicked families out of their hovels... The statute aesthetically is too big for the space... As for Napoleon...his horse Marengo makes a good painting!
Well, it would be a heinous double-standard to continue to receive that money. I'm speculating here, but funds might now be diverted to all and any disadvantaged families and I doubt they would deny support if one of those families were from one of our ethnic minority groups. Besides the scholarship or trustee sponsorship situation in this country does not do that much compared to other places
Funny you should say that Smug marra https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...atcher-lincolnshire-statue-protestors-4224645
The problem is that a lot of very important causes are hijacked by holier-than-thou types who are desperate to demonstrate how well developed their 'social consciences' are and who advocate increasingly extreme methods not to cause offence to people. This is off putting to so many people that it becomes easy to dismiss these things as trendy bandwagons.
£300,000 WTF!!! Where did all that money come from ... ... couldn't they just have had her stuffed and spray painted
Divisive, yes. Decisive probably, but diversive ...erm no I'm not denying there's an element of that - but talking to friends and folk in the 'real world' people are saying it feels a bit different this time. It is global, it is still going on, voices are being heard. I'm certain the trendy do-gooders and Millennial hordes will continue to flip-flop between one ever-so-important issue and the next, but others will continue to stand firm. In the longer term and in terms of The Struggle, it may not amount to anything more than a heap of rubble of statuesque detritus. In the meanwhile for many, consciousness has been raised, resolve has been reaffirmed and the world feels like a better place for it ...even if it is by the tiniest of increments
