And if they say the owner is black and I tell them I won't give my money to blacks ... ... will I be reported for a hate crime?
When everybody in Europe folds to a murdering fascist dictator and Anthony Joshua stands up to them keeping us safe, I’ll maybe like him too. I’ve never tried to defend any of Churchill’s racist comments, unlike you trying to excuse AJ’s speech. At the moment, I just see Joshua as the vile racist Cnut that he is
But you said the matter was about oppressed minorities and that people discussing blacks included them ... ... so why exclude them?
People love radical solutions when it suits them. They tell you they'd like to tear down parliament and hang MP's for voting the other way. The same people will tell you that it's too radical to suggest that black people be given help to redress the centuries of discrimination that led to 45% of black kids being in poverty. They say that would be racist, that if it's going to be a level playing field, black people will just catch up, never mind that they were held back at the start line for a minute. I don't give a **** if people don't like it, they never engage with this part of the debate because it means acknowledging that there probably are reasonable steps that could be taken to redress those issues, and that AJ and Stormzy were suggesting ways that black people could help or be helped by themselves. They argue in bad faith, they twist the words of others, and they refuse to listen to the main points people make. Instead they focus on the one wrong word or phrase they said and make them into a pariah.
‘Superior’ black race. If you think your race is superior, you’re indeed a racist Cnut. That’s how it works.
I'm not, racism is a debate in itself Poverty and the incarceration of opportunity that goes hand in hand with this is another issue. Both are vile and wrong and I have an equal sympathy for those living in run down former pit communities across the North East who suffer the same issues as victims of poverty. As I have tried to point out -and this is borne out of the evidence of statistics and academic studies, people from some races and other communities have been systematically treated unfairly. To put it another way; yes, lets include all and in particular recognise, take on board and attempt to address this ignominious scourge of systemic racism in our communities.
No, they don't like radical solutions, they like to complain and say overly dramatic things. When they hear someone like Anthony Joshua tell people to only shop in black shops, they see someone trying to create a division where they themselves hadn't previously seen a division. You should give a **** whether people like it or not because if you don't, you are failing to convince people that you are right. The arguing in bad faith happens on both sides of the argument. The twisting of words and the refusing to listen to main points isn't unique to the side you are arguing against. I've repeatedly made the point that attacking things that people hold dear fails to win the argument for you and yet you have just called Churchill racist. Repeatedly telling people that they are wrong (or that they are racist) doesn't make them agree with you. Just because they keep telling you that you are wrong is no reason to adopt the same tactics. This is just some ****ty football forum but if you put your point across properly, you might just turn one or two people on to the movement. Its massively important to get this right.
You're just arguing about something completely at a tangent. I'm asking simple questions and you're just ignoring them to make some abstract point that there are variations in everyone's ability. Nobody is denying that. Were black people discriminated against for many centuries, right up until our recent past? Yes. Does that mean that people in black communities are more likely to be disadvantaged than people in white communities? Yes. Does that mean that for now there are reasonable steps we can take to help black communities get more opportunities to make up for that lower starting point? You can answer the last one.
I did because he was and because that point was made to me at the weekend in this thread, that Churchill was a racist but that ultimately we felt that we could overlook that for him. Is anyone seriously doubting he was a racist who said racist things? I'm not. I doubt you are. Does it mean I want his statue down? No, I've said as much. So I thought it was a good way to illustrate the higher standard that Saffy is holding Joshua to than he does Churchill. I tried to debate reasonably, and I got back So why bother?
Sorry, I think I may have misinterpreted what you were saying here. In the context of BLM I take it as an all-inclusive term for 'racism' in all its form and guises. I may be wrong but I believe most BLM activists would agree with this
Why bother? Because it's clearly an issue you feel strongly about. My opinions on Churchill don't align with yours, but that's a different matter. What I do think is important is that you're getting bogged down in the debate regarding whether he was racist or not and ignoring the harm that attacking figures like him does to the cause. As I said previously, there is a clear mindset amongst some people to take a very extreme view of certain issues. The partisan positions that these people adopt turns many people away, it makes them feel excluded, even if their natural inclination is to be on the side of the argument that you would want them to be on.
Am I a cop? Never thought I’d mentioned it on here! I personally don’t consciously check myself but I’m sure it will happen subconsciously. I try and treat everyone with the same level of respect that I would like. At times it’s difficult irrespective of what skin colour they are. And I don’t mean that in a racial sense. It’s meant purely in a misanthropic sense!! I happen to be in a job that sections of society turns to for help yet simultaneously blames for their own actions. That’s the reality of the thin blue line.
I don't think I've done that throughout. I've tried to be respectful, I've never accused anyone of racism, yet twice now, from Smug and now Saffy, they've accused me of it. Weird that isn't it? How quick they are to play the race card... Where are you speaking out against them? That's what I don't get. I don't personally want you to, but you've had this ongoing thing here where you're trying to tell me to do what? Be more respectful than I have been? Be more reasonable than to agree Churchill's statue shouldn't come down? Be more accommodating than to say that it's stupid to pull old TV shows where no offence was intended? I've said all of those things and instead of saying 'fair enough, what a reasonable view' they've just accused me of being a racist, attacked my character repeatedly... you think that's ok?
I never said he did. ‘Superior’ Black race. If you think your race is superior to everybody else’s then you’re a racist prick. Agreed? The comparison you made to Churchill is laughable. You should go and use the search function to pull up all my posts on the man. I doubt you’ll find many. You were trying to somehow compare me thinking Churchill is alright for standing up to fascism to you defending actual racist comments.
You’re making excuses for racist comments and won’t condemn a black racist man when I’m serving you up all the evidence which confirms this. Why won’t you call a racist, a racist, regardless of the skin colour?
Maybe all the white boxing fans , sponsors and advertisers should only pay their money for boxing matches between two white boxers. Ok, Anthony ?
