Aaaah... okay. had me stumped for a while there. And blimey.... what happened here? How did we get back to Kobayashi? Anyway... simple solution to all the problems that Hamilton's having this year... Simply shorten the car by about 8 inches or so. ;l
im loving where this thread is going! it has span decades abck to the early 90's and up to today brilliant!
Are we talking about Hamilton/petrov malaysia 2010? I never did count that as blocking really, although I may be called a fanboy for saying so, Its a block if the driver behind does not want you in front of them whereas petrov clearly did want hamilton on front of him, I also wouldn't call it a block if the driver behind is not forced to lift off/brake earlier than intended which he did not.
Although it was a close call on the penalty issue, I honestly believe that the deciding factor was that Massa suffered a puncture, If lewis had simply lost his front wing then nothing would have been done. It was a 50/50 decision but the puncture swung it, and rightly so in my very humble opinion. It wouldn't be fair to destroy another drivers race and not get a slap on the wrist which is all we are talking about here. I know because I've heard it all before on another forum that some will jump up and down and say yes but it was just a mistake or it was an error in judgement and lots of other things besides, but all those things are completely irrelevant, when you are talking about open wheel racing, it is not like the Gelletta Juniors where they bash into each other with impunity and no recourse, open wheel racing is dangerous, if you want to see that type of racing then I suggest you go and watch banger cars to satisfy your lust. I repeat open wheel racing is dangerous and requires a modicum of respect for your fellow competitors.
I feel some of the problem, although clearly not all has been caused by the need to stamp over others views. My view is that it was: 100% Hamilton's fault Hamilton probably deserved a penalty It was not reckless just a marginal miss-judgement. People may disagree with me, and I may disagree with them, but as far as I'm concerned thats all it needs to be, nothing heated or bad temped, just a difference of opinions. As a side note I'm going to read this thread properly in a bit so if anyone feels they have been dishing out the insults now is the time to own up and apologise
There's not really much point in trying to explain anything to you, because you refuse point blank to take anything other than your own opinions onboard.
By reckless I am meaning all the mistakes this year! Maybe this particular one wasnt reckless but combined with his other accidents his driving is a tad reckless this year! For me it is wobbling on the fence but just tips to being a touch reckless overall this year! Martin also touched on the fact that he is being a bit reckless this year as a whole!
Speaking philosophically the consequences of an action are irrelevant to the morality of an action for example the person who attempts to gun his wife down and misses is more morally culpable than the person who trips over, causing his wife to fall down the stairs and die. I also believe that punishments and stewarding decisions should be made not in the line of retribution but rather as a disincentive for unsportsmanlike conduct... racing incidents are racing incidents in my head and the rule book shouldn't be thrown out so much. So with that in mind I'd say Hamilton probably shouldn't have got a penalty... he tried to break and locked up, so there's no intention there and losing his wing is incentive enough not to do those things. It was an accident, a racing incident. Plus can't believe for the life of me Nico got off so much more lightly than Lewis given his eventful race. Not to mention Michael.
The stewards cannot and should not make that kind of distinction if they did it would take hours to come to a decision, the stewards office isn't a court room, they don't employ 12 jurors just and true and present evidence and argue the toss, they can't know what is going or second guess what is going on in a drivers mind. We've been discussing this for over a day now and even we can't come to an agreement what chance do you think they would have if they treated as an open debate? They have to make a decision within a certain time period, so they open a book flip to the relevant page and apply the rules, that is the only way it can be and the only way it should be.
Had he have sliced Massa's tyre open and kept his wing and carried on, then I'd be more inclined to say he deserved a penalty... His mistake actually ruined his own race and he served a self imposed punishment so really not that much need for a penalty. I think previous form played a part in the handing out of the penalty and I'm not sure if that's fair or not. The positives that Hamilton can take from the race was that he recovered well and drove a very good race there on out... not that easy when you're probably kicking yourself.
Thought this was pretty funny: http://grandprixdiary.com/2011-calendar/25-september-singapore/handbags-in-singapore-and-not-just-in-the-shops
Thats a poor argument because other drivers suffer the same. Take the last two penaltys given. To Liuzzi in Monza and Senna in Spa. Both of them killed their own races. Consistancy is often something Hamilton fans ask for. It was a good recovery though.
But the point is that he ruined Massa's race as well when Massa was 100% innocent, so why should they both suffer equally when one caused an incident and the other one was just the victim of it? Plus Massa came off worse; Hamilton broke a part of his wing but Massa had a puncture so would of lost a lot more time and had Hamilton not had a penalty Massa would of been behind Hamilton which would of been unfair.
True... I can't really argue against that. Once upon a time incidents like this particular one went unpunished though, and I think I preferred those times. I'm really not arguing that he shouldn't have received a penalty, I guess I'd prefer if these things came and went as they once did across the board. Also... there seems to be this culture among fans that every incident needs to be looked at... Just look at the grief Schuey got in Monza. Personally I enjoy hard driving like Schuey displayed, yet it comes under scrutiny. Times are different though I guess.
I like to see drivers taking risks - Alonso, Vettel and Button all take risks however the thing that annoys me about Hamilton is that he can be quite clumsy, the others are not! Mind you its probably more his die-hard fans that irritate me - even when he himself admits to a mistake, they still are adamant he is innocent. I personally would like to see clean, calculated racing but with less run-off tarmac, I hate it with a passion, bring back the old gravel traps which I think are brilliant and shorten the run-off, the cars are safe enough to survive impacts with the Tekro barriers! Let them suffer for mistakes
This clumsiness is something that seems to have emerged recently... Yes he's had incidents in the past (as have others) but not to this level. Up to this season, he's been regarded as a strong overtaker and I don't see his recent form as a trait of his driving... more of a dip in form. I just hope he gets his mojo back. Also... don't generalize his fans. We're not all bonkers.
Yes I pretty much agree with that. Maybe the reprimand system should be used more; such as if there is a 'racing incident' then the drivers get reprimands and if you collect two or maybe three reprimands you get penalised, that way the serial offenders do get punished but the odd racing incident is just part of racing, maybe the reprimands should get reset halfway through the year as well.
Possibly... if something like that was used properly it would have to be some kind of card like system and the info on who was carrying them made available and easily seen.
