Off Topic SARS-CoV-2 Covid-19

So what you're asking for is an entire country to put together some form of montage of them slating us, is that the sort of thing you were after?

Be a bit more grown up, newspapers inform the public and form consensus, you know that. Yes, it's one person's opinion writing it, but then consider how many read that and agree with it. It's not as though I've linked you to some randomer's blog. Maybe we have written about other countries, but that's whataboutism, because we're talking about what countries think of us.

I'm going to be honest with you, because I think you think this is political for me, I voted for candidates in both parties over the last couple of years. I firmly believe this country can have a Conservative government if the right people are in place. Ditto the Labour party. (apologies mods, I'm not making this political, I'm simply pointing out that my criticism isn't based on the colour of the tie the government happen to be wearing). I will not, however, concede the point that this has been anything other than a ****show from start to finish.

I agree with the idea of lockdown, I agree with extending it (which is what we're about to do) because we're nowhere near ready to come out. The idea of a phased return is probably the safest way to ensure we can return to a modicum of normality while endangering the least amount of lives. Do I believe that we followed science from start to finish? Nope, I believe we used science as a crutch to allow us to form an opinion we think we should follow, as opposed to directly following the scientific advice given. The WHO declared this a worldwide concern in January. We didn't lock down until mid March, despite pleas from other nations, the WHO and the government opposition to do so earlier (which is why I ignored Charon's earlier diatribe, it was bollocks). When it finally dawned on them to follow consensus, it was too late.

Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, however, there were a lot of people saying this at the time and that's my point. We ignored it, either because we think we're better or because we didn't want to be seen to. There were a fair few on here (not to be bigheaded, but myself included) who railed against the whole "wash your hands and sing happy birthday" approach:

Abdu Sharkawy, a doctor, pleaded with the government to take this seriously, writing an open statement to them on the 6th March, along with 200 or so other medical professionals and were roundly ignored. Three weeks later, Sharkawy died of the disease.

It isn't sitting in hindsight, it's anger at the government not listening to people at the time. We were fully aware of what was going on and how potentially damaging it could be because plenty of other places were telling us, many of them experts and scientists. So the anger stems from that, not simply for the total death toll. Claiming it's easy to say in hindsight is bollocks, because people were saying it then. The information was there, it hasn't magically appeared in the last two days.

I'm not having it that we're going to let this pass by as another fluffy, British "we're all in this together" moment once it's over. The country, that is the general population, need to band together. But my word, we need to hold these people to account, this is an enormous **** up that's resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands. Even if that figure was 10% of the total, surely you'd be asking the question? If we don't, how can we expect to learn from this?

We're way past partisanship here, objectively speaking, how can this be described as anything other than a poor show from our government (opposition included)? And if now is not the time to criticise, now that we are the highest death toll in Europe, then when? Apathy isn't helpful when hundreds of people are dying everyday. You are allowed to be angry at this, I'm sure plenty within the government, even Boris himself, are regretful of the situation.

EDIT: I tried a multi-quote and it didn't work, but head back to the beginning of the thread and read it, if you have time. Watch the dynamic unfold.

 

Lighten up, Francis.

If you fell for flag waving, bumbling optimism, good for you.

 

So I gave you a first hand account, you didn't want that.

I give you international journalists making my point, you didn't want that either.

I'll try again. What exactly (within the realms of reality) would you like me to produce that you aren't going to immediately dismiss?

 

As previously posted an accurate assessment of covid associated deaths was reported on the BBC a couple of weeks back. NHS deaths are bang in the expected range for the general population whereas the death rate amongst London transport workers were almost double that.

 

Attack the government? I'm asking how they've managed to **** up so badly, I'm not activating a coup .

There's going to be an inquiry into this, perhaps you feel that's too mean and we should leave them alone and stop bullying them?

 

I'll reply in more detail once o finish work, but just a quick one, why are you so fixated on the highest deaths in Europe bit? If all countries recorded deaths the same way and included the same figures in their numbers then yes great let's compare, but they don't. Some for example don't include care homes etc where we now do. Plus the size of the population and the population density also should be taken into account, are we for example the highest death rate in europe per million of population? The highest death toll in Europe is just a very broad sweeping comment that makes things look worse then they are, gives people who want to criticise the government, something to beat them with and also the media a headline to scaremonger and make click bait headlines

 

Seeing as you said "lots of countries are gobsmacked" some authentic evidence of this would be a start...

 

An inquiry will and should happen but not untill this is completely over. Anything before is just an excuse for people to bash Boris and his team! It's so easy for people to critique and pull things to bits when they never actually had to step up and do anything bar spend months and months pulling to bits decisions that people had to make on the spot with the info they had Infront of them.

 

I've got an idea. Let's stop the tedious bickering and just have a big group hug

 

From 2m apart obviously

 

Well we could do an elbow punch and connect with the soles of our feet

 

No we haven't, other countries have had a complete lockdown unlike our flexible one.

 

It's not a fixation, it's more bafflement than anything. We're renowned for having a solid if not overworked healthcare system the world over, so the idea that our death toll is into five figures, let alone 30,000 is staggering to me. There are countries in Europe, such as Poland, Latvia, Romania, Hungary etc who have pretty crap healthcare systems, are part of mainland Europe and yet have a lower death toll. Yes, alright, they're not tourism hubs or even economic giants but you'd think that a country as rich and sure-standing as ours would have a lower death rate based on our far greater healthcare and scientific capabilities.

Go outside of Europe and look at other countries with higher population densities than ours; India, who share a border with China and have both a higher population and a higher population density (not to mention a worse healthcare system), have had just over a thousand deaths. Vietnam, who also have a higher pop density and population and border China, 0 deaths (though they're socialist, so might be lying). South Korea, high pop density, similar population, 256 deaths. Bangladesh, higher pop, higher pop density, ****ty healthcare system, ravaged with poverty, 199 deaths. All of those deaths are a tragedy. All of them. But why are there so few in these countries, ones that are traditionally considered to be in much worse shape than the UK (SK aside).

You're right, other countries perhaps don't count the same way we do and I agree it can lead to sensationalist reports, however that doesn't in any way dampen the significance of that figure. So if we eliminate the comparison and have it as a stand alone figure, I'll rephrase the question; how have 30,076 people been allowed to die from this given our superior healthcare system, capacity for scientific research and world renowned medical facilities?

 

But while those are contributing factors, they're not the only ones. Have a lot of the people that have been dying obese? I know there's a link because of the body fatigue from repairing fat cells (think that's right), but I haven't seen anything to suggest a lot of obese people have been dying despite the increase in risk.

Also, obesity aside, we knew all of that before this became a pandemic, so shouldn't those factors have contributed more towards us taking smarter steps sooner?

 

I ****ing miss football

 

Isnt that how it works or is it different because of who's in charge and has got a jolly tv style persona?
Are we not allowed to criticise anything ?
When people criticise our poor defending in football match do we tell them to wait til the end of the season before having a say ?

 

This is exactly how I feel. It's like somehow the people who should be taking responsibility are now immune because coronavirus (no pun intended).

 

We dont live in a Comunist state the last time I looked !

 

We need Lynne from Skipton