I still think the overall picture is more relevant. I agree about locking down sooner, but I understand Sweden is going for herd immunity and that is working well, so far. It remains to be seen how that pans out. I am not disagreeing with your point in general, just that the deaths are not necessarily a reflection on the exact number that occurred in a 24 period, they are the ones reported in a 24 hour period. I can imaging both Spain and Italy not wanting to post those results over going above 1000 in a day, and may have chosen to defer some. Like Schad, I have been tracking this very early. Mrs Billy has been rolling her eyes at me for months when i was telling her what was going on and going to happen everywhere, now she is grateful we locked ourselves and our children down 3 weeks before the Government did it. I would like to see how this all pans out, and comparing to other countries for me is less relevant, and there are too many metrics to factor to have a direct comparison, such as number of ICU beds, age of population, density of population, how many hospitals in dense places, testing regimes. New York has a very similar population to London, but far more dense in space, and they are totally ****ed with this right now, and they tested the hell out of the place. Maybe I think the approach you suggested is far too simplistic, and as I mentioned above, doesn’t allow for any real metrics to be considered other than numbers of ‘reported’ deaths. It may be we have not reported correctly either, and being less down on people, governments right now for me is the better way forward, we can all sit here and slag them all off in 18 months when we are all unemployed and not enough was done to keep companies afloat
And of course he ignored every thing that every one was telling him deliberately making sure as many people as possible caught the disease?? Of course he didn’t........it’s the blame culture working mate not reality.!!
May be it's not about ethical motivation, but more about competence. Where as with Mr Trump it's about both..
Herd immunity without vaccine is by population infection the time it took to realise the death toll was unacceptable was time lost. That's reality along with the inept government handling of the situation that lost two weeks at a cost now being realised. So how about the lack of equipment and staff shortages? How about the horrified response to Hancock's instruction re PPE use? Don't the frontline staff have a right to complain about dangerous working practices? It's not just Johnson I quoted the Cygnus exercise recommendations that were ignored. When the mail and telegraph slate the government there's a case to be answered.
hindsight is a wonderful thing don’t you think? I can understand perhaps things got off slowly, but deliberately so??? Nah I could never agree there
Dominic Cummings advised Boris on herd immunity....and when realised (too late) how many would die then said to lockdown instead . https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die
The UK has a far higher population density than France, Spain and Italy therefore making it a harder job for the UK government. We have a higher population than France and compare the size of the 2 countries! Yes the government haven't done things perfectly but I don't think they deserve to be crucified.
Plus they ignored the advice on ventilators at the start ....missed out on getting 500 sooner. https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542
No hindsight in ignoring the Cygnus report, WHO and other countries experiences. Quite the opposite. As St Rich said Cummings the eugenicist was behind the herd immunity a deliberate policy.
That's right, so you have to question how they imagined herd immunity would work in a densely populated country. You might get away with it in Sweden but not UK. I think US, UK and Japan were a lot more worried about economic impact and were afraid of how damaging a shutdown would be and thus look likely to suffer worse. Hopefully we come out of this well, time will tell.
That is correct, but i am not sure people died as they couldn’t get the ventilators, they died as the circus was so bad, was my understanding. People world over have died whilst on the right equipment. If I am wrong, then happy to admit so. But people like to believe what they want to believe (not saying you Richie, btw), but some feel comfort in having someone to blame. Maybe people dont realise how bad the virus is, that it kills no matter what the support system the patient is on.
People wont want to hear this now, but the economic issue with more suicides and retaliated deaths from the economic/mental health will be bad over the next few years, i think the government have had an eye on balance against the virus and the economy and I think that is a tough job to get it 100% correct. I applaud the efforts of the government as much as the nhs, supermarket workers, cleaning and maintenance firms and everyone who stuck to the rules and locked down.
At the beginning the feeling in the COBRA meetings, according to Chris Whitty, was that if the COVID-19 deaths in the UK could be limited to 20,000, that would be a “good outcome”. As the confirmed, positively-tested hospital deaths are now nudging 10,000, is it not time to ask for an estimate of the deaths from the virus which have happened in the community? This morning Mike Galsworthy was saying on his vlog that those deaths could be as many as the hospital deaths, and if that is true then we are approaching the limit of the “good outcome” numbers, with not the faintest glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. I’m not going to point fingers and blame individual government members, although Matt Hancock yesterday blaming NHS front line staff for wasting PPE was about as despicable as it gets. For better or worse we are stuck with this government making the decisions and we have to support them. I will, however, be at the front of the queue calling for an independent public inquiry into the handling of this crisis once is it over.
Coronavirus is not a political crisis but it is being made worse in this country by inept and flawed political decisions. No one wants to attack a government in a time of crisis, and national unity is obviously vitally important but neither should we just accept the mistakes, lies and stupidity that has dogged the government response to the virus. If it upsets people to discover this crisis has been badly managed then that is just tough. It has been, and we are where we are. Doctors, nurses, bus and train drivers, shop workers, care home assistants, delivery staff and many other people have died because of a lack of protective equipment. If anyone thinks it's wrong to pass comment on that then they are mistaken. No one is trying to turn this into an anti-conservative witch hunt. It doesn't matter what flavour of government it is. The result of the initial 'herd immunity' policy and continued failure to initiate mass testing, failure to supply protective equipment and to supply ventilators is mismanagement on a monumental scale and is likely to result in thousands more deaths. Maybe our present government will see the love and respect the people of this country have for the health service, and also for those who work away every day on piss poor money, barely scratching a living, and recognise that things have to be different when we come through this. All people want is good governance, no matter what colour it is. That is not political, it's just how it is.
Sir Kenny Dalglish has tested positive for coronavirus while in hospital for treatment of a different infection, his family have announced. The 69-year-old Liverpool legend was admitted to hospital on Wednesday for a course of intravenous antibiotics and, in line with current procedures, underwent a test for Covid-19 despite displaying no symptoms of the illness. The test was positive and the Scot, who remains asymptomatic, will remain in hospital for further treatment.
The claim that Dominic Cummings DID say what was alleged, is reported to have come from a reporter who is highly trusted by the government and who is one of their go to people for releasing information that they want released. Maybe, just like the interview below, they were trying to gauge public reaction, and if there was little or no obvious objection, it might have been the way they went. Here’s the interview on This Morning (5th March) in which Johnson floats the theory of letting the virus wash through the country and take it all in one go. At about 6 minutes 30 seconds. This after also shaking hands with both hosts.
