No it is not, I have every right to say what I have about Kilkenny, he was (in my opinion) a very poor football player and professional at Leeds United. Off your high horse Clive, your comments on Grayson and most of Leeds in general are ridiculous and you know it.
Yeh, the man is a success...well he was a success and although the team is pish poor now and can't compete with Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea, they are ok! Wegner won things with players who were signed by other Arsenal managers, it was when they all left/retired and Wegner brought in players that they stopped winning things. The team he inherited already won things and only lost their manager due to they way he dealt in the transfer market and his personal gain from that. Let's be honest about Wegner, not the myth. To back up my point, here is the Wegner success record at Arsenal, please note the years he won things and the players who were already winning things at Arsenal under George Graham: ArsenalWinner: FA Premier League (3): 1997–98, 2001–02, 2003–04 FA Cup (4): 1997–98, 2001–02, 2002–03, 2004–05 FA Community Shield (4): 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004 Most of the defence retired/left at the end of the 2002/2003 season, so perhaps this speaks for itself.
The Arsenal team that went the entire 03/04 season unbeaten contained mostly Wenger signings,namely Lehman,Petit,Viera,Bergkamp.Henry,among others,none of whom cost a great deal of money,so it was without doubt Wenger's team,& Wenger's style of football.
Do you actually read posts? I stated that they both can't spot a decent defender, not management. Please read a post before you respond.
LIE, Your wrong on many points: Petit was a Chelsea player in 2003/2004, he left Arsenal in 2000. The others (except Henry) were established players at other clubs who he bought, not developed. Bergkamp was bought by Bruce Rioch for Arsenal in 1995, not Wegner. Viera was already going to Arsenal, prior to Wegner taking over, the deal nearly feel through but Wegner asked for it to remain. I have no argument for the season 2003/2004, they were a cracking team then, but since then they have virtually done nowt and when they needed to rise to the occassion, they failed. Many managers were once great and then keep going but never reach the levels required, Wegner is one of those managers, the game has moved on and his style of football has gone with it. Sir Alex Ferguson may annoy people, but he is the greatest manager of all time for a reason, he keeps in touch with football styles and knows how to win games, both with style and when required the ugly way. Wegner isn't anywhere near the level of Ferguson or Guardiola. The facts speak for themselves at Arsenal, very very few managers go six years without winning anything, especially at a club as big as Arsenal, like many Arsenal fans, I reckon it's time for a change and unless they do change things, it will be many more years of not winning anything.
Boab the common denominator between you me & Clivetime is the fact we all agree that Grayson is unable to identify a decent defender,the signing of O'Dea being a prime example) & things aren't about to change anytime soon,unless a drastic overhaul of the defensive coaching staff takes place,& even that won't be enough with the current personnel,who are just not good enough.
I did wonder myself about 5-3-2 taking into account what we have... ------------ Lonergan --------- -------- Lees -- Kissa -- Pugh Conolly -----------------------White -----Howson -- Clayton -- Mika ------ -------Becchio ---- McCormack ------ Mika/Snodgrass and Howson/Nunez options forget Keogh he is only on loan till December he might try hard but we need extra goals. Conolly and White venturing to the middle and getting forward, when either of them are stranded forward then Pugh can cover one side, Lees the other with any of the three midfielders ensuring one has stayed back to fill the gap.
I would agree, although I was also trying to say that finding a decent defender isn't that easy and there are only a few managers out there who know what they are doing when it comes to defenders, George Graham was one of those who knew the value of having a strong back four.
You contradict yourself by demanding Grayson be sacked despite winning games and promotion, but not managing a team in the way you want, but state someone's opinion on Wegner and that he should be sacked as being "ridiculous", despite the fact he hasn't won anything for many many years and the team are playing poorly.
That's not a contradiction at all. Grayson and Wenger are totally different people in totally different situations. You tried to compare Grayson with Wenger, said you didn't, then did again. That's a double contradiction.
I think Wenger would feel deeply insulted to be compared to Grayson. Boab you stated the fact Grayson has achieved more than Wenger in the last couple of years because he gained promotion,something which was impossible for Wenger to do. He was too busy leading Arsenal to CL qualification for the 14th consecutive season.
I see, so to get out of your posts, you try to mix up someone else's. So let's go back, I stated that Grayson and Wegner had something in common, in that they both could not spot a decent defender if they were standing in front of them. Now, for some reason you decided to take that as being a comparison between the two, on what grounds I have no idea, but that's you throughout isn't it. I then responded to another post you tried to say I'd compared the two, with the facts and now yet again your trying (not actually succeeding) to get out of your own "ridiculous" comment on my opinion on Wegner. I think that concludes this debate....
You may be right Leeds60 ..whoops (Leeds in Essex), but in a manner of supporting Clive's "ridiculous" comment, I have used Grayson and Wegner, I could have used other managers, but Grayson is the one Clive always comes on here demanding he is sacked, even though in just under three years we have regularly won or managed a draw, won promotion and nearly made the EPL play offs. To demand a manager is sacked for not getting what Clive wants and then to suggest sacking Wegner is "ridiculous" despite the fact he hasn't won anything for many years and the team are going backwards (ask most Arsenal fans and they will agree), simply has to be challenged. Of course both managers are in a different league and probably a million miles from each other, but the fact of football management is always the same, get results and win things keeps you in a job, lose games and not win anything gets you the sack....unless you are Wegner of course!
That's the second time today you've referred to me as Leeds60.....I'm LeedsInEssex! Not sorting out the defence after two years & seeing the likes of Darren O'Dea as the answer also tends to get managers the sack.
Sorry Leeds in Essex, my mistake, I'll make sure I stop doing it, but I have terrible nasty habits that no matter how hard I try, I can't stop......
