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Coronavirus: Please use this thread for all COVID19 talk!

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by - Doing The Lambert Walk, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    3-4 years from now it should be fine, if it can go untouched. We're so far from bottom at the moment however that we might as well be a fishing boat over the Mariana Trench.

    Would love it if I still had available capital to invest in six months, but god knows whether that's at all likely.
     
    #801
  2. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Photo taken in Torrevieja, Spain last night.
    They are taking self isolation very seriously

    D7105B46-2A58-4D05-AE97-ABBFE3560103.jpeg
     
    #802
  3. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    Copied from Facebook:

    UK’s approach to coronavirus is suspect

    SOMETHING IS WRONG…

    This article raises more questions than it answers. This is such a rapidly moving story that some of the facts and statistics may change by tomorrow – that’s why I have dated the graphic. But nonetheless – the questions need asking, and answers should be demanded.

    Because something is wrong about the UK’s handling of the new coronavirus known as Covid-19.

    Here’s the outline, as presented in my poster:

    ▪ People who didn’t know they had Covid-19 drove its spread in China. That was a lesson learnt fast. The countries that test EVERYONE with symptoms and trace all their contacts for isolation have lower rates of the disease and death. ‘TEST, TEST, TEST’ urges the World Health Organisation.

    ▪ Reported cases of coronavirus in China are in rapid decline. Total deaths have reached just over 3,200 - but there have been NO new cases of Covid-19 in the past 24 hours. China has closed its last coronavirus hospital due to lack of new patients. China may now have “passed its worst” claim some experts.

    ▪ But in the UK… No community testing or contact tracing of suspected Covid-19 cases, against WHO guidelines. No testing of front-line NHS health workers. Sir Patrick Vallance, UK’s Chief Scientific Officer, says 20,000 coronavirus deaths would be a “good outcome”. The government plans emergency powers to last TWO YEARS.

    ▪ HAS CHINA PASSED THE WORST?

    According to news reports today, in the past 24 hours Italy, Iran, Spain, France, the US and Germany have all registered 1,000+ new cases of the coronavirus.

    But China has reported no new cases in the past 24 hours, the first time that has happened since the start of the outbreak in early January.

    China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital due to lack of new patients. Wuhan medics were seen celebrating and removing their protective gear after the final coronavirus hospital was shut down.

    [Source: thethaiger.com/coronavirus/covid-19-update-europe-and-us-cases-soar-china-reports-0-new-cases-today]

    CNBC reports that as governments around the world scramble to contain the spread of the coronavirus, the situation in China may have “passed its worst.”

    That’s according to the regional chief investment officer of UBS Global Wealth Management’s Kelvin Tay.

    There is a “semblance that production capability is actually now coming back to the Chinese economy,” Mr Tay said, citing a decline in the number of reported infections in the country.

    That will likely make the Chinese economy “the first in the world” to get back on track, he told CNBC’s “Squawk Box” on Tuesday.

    [Source: cnbc.com/2020/03/11/chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-has-passed-its-worst-says-ubs.html]

    Ok, Mr Tray is not a medical expert, but the graphs check out what he says: the incidences of Covid-19 illnesses and deaths in China are in steep decline.

    [Source: worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/]

    ▪ TESTING IS VITAL

    According to virologists and the World Health Organisation, testing is vital to contain the spread and deaths from Covid-19.

    It’s how some countries, such as South Korea, Taiwan and China, have managed to get a grip on the virus more effectively than other countries.

    This from ‘Our World in Data’:

    ‘We want to know the total number of people infected with Covid-19. To know this, it is necessary to have widespread testing.

    ‘When testing is too low we do not have a clear picture of what’s going on.

    ‘Testing is crucial as it allows the infected person to avoid infecting others and to quickly receive the care they need.

    'And it is crucial for all of us to understand the prevalence of the disease, to understand how the disease evolves, and to allow us to take evidence-based decisions for counter measures that slow down the spread of the disease.

    ‘This last point is very important: Testing is crucial to lower the rate of infection. When infected people do not know that they are infected, they might not stay at home – thereby running the risk of infecting others.’

    [Source: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus]

    The World Health Organisation says widespread testing and isolating of all those who have the illness and their immediate contacts are currently the most effective measures to contain the spread of the virus.

    ‘Test, test, test,’ urges WHO.

    [Sources: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...fs-coronavirus-message-to-world-idUSKBN2132S4 who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance]

    The vital importance of testing was quickly discovered in China, the country that’s taken the world’s most drastic efforts to contain the Covid-19 virus.

    People who didn’t know they had COVID-19 drove its spread in China, a new study of the early days of the outbreak in China has suggested.

    Mild cases of COVID-19 that go unrecognised fuelled the coronavirus pandemic, according to the study.

    [Source: sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-infected-people-mild-cases-symptoms-stealth-spread-china]

    ▪ UK HASN'T TESTED ENOUGH

    Yes, testing for Covid-19 is now being ramped up, according to today’s news, but community testing and testing of front-line health workers still isn’t being routinely undertaken, and we’ve now lost many weeks in the fight against this disease.

    Today, The Guardian ran the story of Dr Mark Gallagher, a consultant cardiologist.

    He’s currently at home with a temperature of 38 and feels sure he has Covid-19.

    But the NHS won’t test him for it, nor others health workers in the same situation.

    Instead, Dr Gallagher has paid for a test kit from a private UK clinic and a colleague in China is sending him another.

    Reported The Guardian: ‘He cannot understand why the NHS will not test him or other healthcare workers who are put at risk by their work and risk infecting other vulnerable patients in turn, as well as their families.

    “The policy is that I don’t need to be tested and even the people who have been in contact with me aren’t going to be tested,” said Dr Gallagher.

    [Source: theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/there-is-a-policy-of-surrender-doctor-on-uks-covid-19-failures]

    People phoning 111 for advice because they have symptoms of Covid-19 (high temperature and/or persistent cough) are simply told to stay home for 7-14 days, no testing necessary, no tracing of recent contacts necessary.

    This is the way the virus can easily spread.

    It also means that people who don’t have the virus take time off work, along with all their family, and so cannot go to work, when they may be urgently needed, especially if an NHS worker.

    Yet, the UK government has been slow to heed the warnings.

    A “collective failure” to appreciate the enormity of the coronavirus pandemic and enact swift measures to protect the public will lead to unnecessary deaths, according to a leading doctor.

    Dr Richard Horton, the editor-in-chief of the Lancet, said the UK ignored clear warning signs from China.

    He has strongly criticised the government and its ‘expert’ advisers for failing to act when Chinese researchers first warned about a devastating new virus that was killing people in Hubei two months ago.

    Dr Horton said the warning was met with complacency in Britain, where for unknown reasons, medical and scientific advisers watched and waited, believing that the coronavirus could be treated like influenza, and that a “controlled epidemic” would generate “herd immunity”.

    [Source: theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/18/uk-failures-over-covid-19-will-increase-death-toll-says-leading-doctor

    But according to a report in the World Economic Forum, for the UK to achieve herd immunity, 70 per cent of the population would require to be infected with coronavirus.

    "Achieving herd immunity would require well over 47 million people to be infected in the UK. Current estimates are that Covid-19 has a 2.3 per cent case-fatality rate and a 19 per cent rate of severe disease.

    “This means that achieving herd immunity to Covid-19 in the UK could result in the deaths of more a million people with a further eight million severe infections requiring critical care," stated the report.

    That was a ridiculous proposal of the UK government, which fortunately they are now distancing themselves from – but so much precious time has been lost in the meantime.

    [Source: businesstoday.in/current/world/britains-u-turn-in-strategy-to-fight-coronavirus/story/398587.html]

    ▪ THE UK RESPONSE

    The government's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, suggested this week that 20,000 deaths or below from coronavirus in the UK would be a "good outcome".

    He added that that there could be as many as 55,000 coronavirus cases already in the UK (he is only estimating, because the UK is doing less testing than the World Health Organisation recommends).

    [Source: news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-big-rise-in-uk-covid-19-cases-up-by-676-to-2626-11959591]

    Up to 20,000 deaths from Covid-19 as a ‘good outcome’ when China – a much larger country – MAY have peaked at just over 3,000 deaths?

    Does the UK know something the rest of us don’t? Or are they preparing us for something much more sinister, knowing that their virus containment strategy won’t work as well as other countries?

    Preparing us for a dystopian set of circumstances to allow democracy to be put on hold?

    Wouldn’t that just delight control-freaks such as Dominic Cummings, the unelected Chief Adviser to the Prime Minister, who has declared ‘war’ on our civil service, and sees Parliament as somewhat of a nuisance?

    [Source: theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/01/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-whitehall-democracy-civil-servants]

    ▪ IS THIS A CLUE?

    The government is now planning emergency powers in the name of the Emergency Coronavirus Bill, to include new detention powers and possibly mass surveillance, to be rushed through Parliament on Thursday, apparently with a nod from the Opposition.

    The Bill will give ministers the powers they say they need to respond to the threat of the virus and support the NHS.

    They include allowing the Border Force to suspend operations at airports or transport hubs if there are insufficient resources to ensure security, and the greater use of video hearings in court cases.

    As Big Brother Watch warned today, ‘When society comes under pressure, so do our rights and freedoms.

    ‘We are urging Parliamentarians to take the utmost care in scrutinising these powers and ensuring that any passed are strictly necessary, proportionate and temporary.’

    Of course, it is right that the government adopts the right measures to protect the country in times of threat and peril, and for sure, coronavirus represents that.

    We await full publication of the Bill, but we already know that the government wants the emergency powers to last for two years.

    [Sources: bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/ tv.com/news/2020-03-17/emergency-coronavirus-bill-to-give-government-new-powers-to-arrest-and-isolate-people/]

    ▪ Emergency powers for two years, that will certainly curtail some of our freedoms.

    ▪ Around 20,000 deaths from coronavirus in the UK - as a “good outcome” - when China, huge China, has just had over 3,200 deaths and may already have passed the worse of the disease, just months after it started.

    Something doesn’t seem right. Please, tell me I’m wrong. I want to be wrong.

    ▪ SUGGESTION: Write to your MP for answers, especially before the new Emergency Coronavirus Bill is passed on Thursday.

    ▪ Report and graphic by Jon Danzig

    ▪ Please re-Tweet: Please re-Tweet:
    twitter.com/Jon_Danzig/status/1240377255706136577
     
    #803
  4. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Summary?
     
    #804
  5. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    You could always read it...
     
    #805
  6. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    Be very careful. I am not sure why you posted this. There are very dangerous people who publish absolute rubbish on the internet. This does a great deal of harm and puts those who believe it and those who don't at great risk.
     
    #806
  7. One of yer Norvern Saints

    One of yer Norvern Saints Well-Known Member

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    I'm in lockdown, so have. For those with less time the biggest question I noted was why China has had just over 3000 deaths and we're saying 20,000 would be a 'good outcome'. Fair point, well made.
     
    #807
  8. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

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    What you should take from that is that you can not even realise you have it, spread it easily and kill people.
     
    #808
  9. One of yer Norvern Saints

    One of yer Norvern Saints Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I only personally know of one confirmed case so far. 29 year old very fit young man who runs marathons for fun was hospitalised with severe breathing diffculties. He's recovering well and will be going home soon. There probably are people who get it and it leaves them feeling just a little unwell, but it is dangerous to peddle the view that it is not a potentially dangerous virus. I'm not in the Armegeddon camp either, but let's keep safe, people.
     
    #809
  10. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned in the politics thread, I tend to lean toward stupid over evil. They dug themselves a massive hole out of complacency and a desire to leave the economy minimally disrupted, which led them to believe 'science' based on motivated reasoning. Consequently, they aren't testing because they waited far, far too long to ramp up production of the test kits, and don't have enough to even begin to pull off a test-and-contain strategy. The problem is that, however quickly they can ramp up testing, progression of the disease ramps up faster.

    Asia ramped up immediately because they know exactly how vulnerable they are...massive population density and a number of (contained) scares in the past meant that China, South Korea, Japan etc are on a permanent war footing against potential pandemics. The western nations were overconfident, horribly underprepared (why spend a bunch of money on something that hasn't happened in a century; even as epidemiologists warn that one's inevitable, it probably won't happen under your government), and thought that the best PR would be had by putting on a brave face and hoping it blows over.

    It hasn't blown over, and now the only thing to do is to press the reset button, as Italy has: quarantine the whole damned country, to slow the spread and allow resources to come back online. THEN you can do test-and-contain, because you'll actually have the capability, and life can get a bit more normal. But the lax first month and a half means that it'll probably take 3 months, minimum, to play catch-up, and if they keep dithering it might be even longer than that.
     
    #810

  11. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    All viruses are dangerous and should be treated with respect. If you do what you can to isolate yourself there is not much more you can do.
     
    #811
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  12. - Doing The Lambert Walk

    - Doing The Lambert Walk Well-Known Member

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    Nigel Adkins is worth a follow on Twitter at the moment. Giving out daily updates of himself walking in the countryside with general positivity, health tips and coping strategies for isolation and the weeks ahead. He's doing a #walkingwithnige feature on a daily basis and it's been nice to watch.
     
    #812
    ChilcoSaint and Saints_Alive like this.
  13. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    If anyone wants to see what a selfish prick looks like, I give you Ant Middleton...


     
    #813
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  14. Velcro Roy

    Velcro Roy Well-Known Member

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    Dont believe all you read!
     
    #814
  15. ----HistoryRepeating----

    ----HistoryRepeating---- Well-Known Member

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    I started reading it, and my life started flashing before my very eyes.
    <laugh> I'm going outside before the army get here.
     
    #815
    Libby likes this.
  16. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    What value would you put on a Premier League Footballer, a Doctor, a Nurse or an Emergency Worker now. The one thing I hope is that coronavirus turns our value system on its head.

    The people who are keeping this country going at the moment are the people who this Government referred to as the blob. Hancock denigrated our Doctors and Nurses, that little worm Gove called our teachers the Blob and likewise Cummings called our Civil Servants the same.

    Let us remember it is the Blob that will save us not this corrupt bunch of incompetent ****ing Tories.
     
    #816
  17. It's Only A Game

    It's Only A Game Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #817
  18. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Boris talks bollocks.
     
    #818
  19. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    That's hilarious!...surely the mascara and lipstick was a giveaway!!...<laugh><laugh><laugh>
     
    #819
    It's Only A Game likes this.
  20. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    Walking through Soton high street after work last night and the Standing Order pub was packed, people outside it were shaking hands and hugging at will and further up the road there was a bunch of maybe 10 people all sat on the same shop doorstep, pissed up and being as "sociable" as they possibly could be.
     
    #820

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