Off Topic Coronavirus

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sb_73 said:
Then I suggest post the deaths figures, but not the meaningless percentages.

I would like to be persuaded to forgo my rights based on rationality, rather than have them taken away from me. History shows us that once a freedom is removed, it’s ****ing hard to get back without a fight.
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Ok. but it doesn't change the facts - 17 have died from it, from a much smaller base, in the USA - nobody has died in Germany or Scandinavia from a much larger one. China is also turning the corner on this - their first concern is to protect 1.4 Billion people, with 102 cities of over a million population to protect, their measures to control epidemics are going to be robust - there is no way it could be any different.
 
colognehornet said:
Ok. but it doesn't change the facts - 17 have died from it, from a much smaller base, in the USA - nobody has died in Germany or Scandinavia from a much larger one. China is also turning the corner on this - their first concern is to protect 1.4 Billion people, with 102 cities of over a million population to protect, their measures to control epidemics are going to be robust - there is no way it could be any different.
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I’m obviously not communicating clearly so I’ll give up.
 
colognehornet said:
Ok. but it doesn't change the facts - 17 have died from it, from a much smaller base, in the USA - nobody has died in Germany or Scandinavia from a much larger one. China is also turning the corner on this - their first concern is to protect 1.4 Billion people, with 102 cities of over a million population to protect, their measures to control epidemics are going to be robust - there is no way it could be any different.
Click to expand...

Plain numbers don't tell the full story, there are already variants of the initial strain of the virus which have different strength, so just quoting numbers is not the truest picture. I'm sure like most things statistics can suit whatever purpose required...
 
A voice of common sense and reason...

Doctor Abdu Sharkawy of the University of Toronto’s Division of Infectious Disease wrote on Facebook :

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.
 
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Stroller said:
A voice of common sense and reason...

Doctor Abdu Sharkawy of the University of Toronto’s Division of Infectious Disease wrote on Facebook :

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.
Click to expand...
If statistic's meant nothing at all then people wouldn't be bothered collecting them. Of course they should be accepted with caution because different countries are testing in different ways (the more you test the more you are likely to find). South Korea is testing 10,000 cases per day, and Italy is performing random tests. Germany is testing all with symptoms and all hospital entries (whatever the reason for entry). Also the tests may be different - with different time spans between test and result. At the other end what, exactly, does 'healed' mean - in one country it may be a case of ''Are you feeling ok'' - ''Yes'', ''Ok you can go home then''- in Germany those who no longer have symptoms are being testing twice subsequently over a two week period, and only if the second test is also negative - only then do they qualify as healed. So the statistics need to be taken with caution, because the means of getting them is not uniform. However - there is no way that China could falsify figures to this extent, with the WHO and independent observers. China is winning the battle - we may not like their methods, but they are the only country which is past the worst - and that is fact, not fantasy. I would rather look at how they have done it rather than accept the fatalist view of ''Most of us are going to get it - just accept it'' - we are very lucky that China did not have this fatalist viewpoint.
 
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Coronavirus can trigger a new industrial revolution

The disease could be the shock we need to harness new technology and new ways of working
Ed Conway

Thursday March 05 2020, 5.00pm GMT, The Times
Don’t take this the wrong way but if you were a young, hardline environmentalist looking for the ultimate weapon against climate change, you could hardly design anything better than coronavirus.

Unlike most other such diseases, it kills mostly the old who, let’s face it, are more likely to be climate sceptics. It spares the young. Most of all, it stymies the forces that have been generating greenhouse gases for decades. Deadly enough to terrify; containable enough that aggressive quarantine measures can prevent it from spreading. The rational response for any country determined to prevent loss of life is to follow China’s lead and lock down their economy to stem its spread.

And so airlines are cancelling flights; companies are scrapping travel. Factories in China and,
 
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“We have started testing the vaccine in the laboratory and we’ve been very excited by the results”

COVIDー19 vaccine being developed by Scottish Scientist Dr Kate Broderick ...

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kiwiqpr said:
quick
tell this lot

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What's with this toilet paper fixation? The Supermarket was completely empty of it when myself and Mrs Nines went shopping earlier. And all the pasta had gone too.
 
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here you go nines

kiwiqpr said:
Coronavirus panic: Why are people stockpiling toilet paper?
By Frances Mao BBC News, Sydney
  • 6 hours ago
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Image copyrightGetty Images
Image caption Does this strike fear into your heart?
Perhaps the worst doomsday scenario is this: being stuck on the toilet and finding you're down to the last square.

At least that appears to be the nightmare prospect scaring many Australians right now, who have become the latest group to respond to coronavirus fears by buying toilet paper en masse.

This is despite authorities stressing there is no shortage - given most of the nation's rolls are made locally.

However in Sydney, the nation's largest city, supermarket shelves have been cleared in minutes, forcing one chain to enforce a four-pack buying limit.

Police were even called to a dispute on Wednesday, with reports saying a knife was pulled out in an argument over toilet roll between panic buying shoppers.


On social media, [HASHTAG]#toiletpapergate[/HASHTAG] and [HASHTAG]#toiletpapercrisis[/HASHTAG] were top trending on Wednesday. Rolls were being flogged for hundreds of dollars online, while listeners were calling into radio stations to win packs of 3-ply loo roll.

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Image copyrightKATHERINE QUIRKE/TWITTER
Image caption Australian stores have seen a mad rush for toilet paper this week
The situation in the past 48 hours has unravelled so much there are also reports of people stealing from public loos.

Just what is going on, and why are people acting this way?

An uptick in panic
The toilet paper problem is not unique to Australia - a similar situation besieged places worse-affected by the virus, such as Singapore, Japan and Hong Kong.

Last month, armed robbers stole pallets in Hong Kong following panic-buying induced shortages there. There are reports of toilet paper buy-ups in the US as well.

In Australia, the frenzy began on the weekend after new cases of Covid-19 emerged and the first local death was reported - a 78-year-old man in Perth, Western Australia. On Wednesday a 95-year-old who died this week in Sydney also tested positive for the virus.

Australia's infection numbers had initially plateaued in the first weeks after the outbreak, following a strict travel ban on visitors from China.

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What do I need to know about the coronavirus?
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Reports then on the weekend of an uptick in cases sparked renewed alarm.

As of Wednesday, Australia had recorded 41 cases of Covid-19, and one death. These are numbers significantly lower than that of other nations.

Official guidance advised people to practice good hygiene and wash their hands. It was also suggested that people could prepare two weeks worth of food and water, as well as other household goods, if they felt it necessary.

The demand for toilet paper surged - ahead of long-life food and other non-perishable goods. Posts on social media showed customers seizing rolls and piling packets on trolleys.

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Amid these reports, authorities have urged the public to stop panic buying.

Australia's chief medical officer Dr Brendan Murphy told parliament this week: "We are trying to reassure people that removing all of the lavatory paper from the shelves of supermarkets probably isn't a proportionate or sensible thing to do at this time."

Supermarkets Coles and Woolworths have stated there is plenty of stock, while the manufacturer of Kleenex toilet paper in the nation said it was now operating 24hr production lines to meet demand.

The government has said that the nation is well-prepared, and taking all active measures to contain the virus. Local cases of transmissions have been relatively isolated so far.

However the toilet-roll buying frenzy continues.

Driven by fear
The buy-up has provoked a collective cringe in some areas. Online, commentators are flummoxed over the need for an item which, were it to run out, does have rougher substitutes.

Some have called it the "dumbest" crisis drummed up by Australians so far. Others have pointed out, that compared to medicines or face masks or hand sanitiser, it's not even an item that helps to combat the virus' spread.

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Consumer psychology experts say the behaviour is "obviously irrational", and a clear example of herd mentality whipped up by social media and news coverage.

The pictures of bare aisles haven't helped.

"What you've got to remember is that when 50 packs of toilet paper rolls disappear off shelves, you really notice it because they take up so much room," says Prof Debra Grace from Griffith University.

"It's much more noticeable than say 50 cans of baked beans or hand sanitiser disappearing."

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Image caption Barren shelves in a Sydney supermarket
FOMO syndrome - or Fear Of Missing Out - is in full force here says Associate Professor Nitika Garg from the University of New South Wales.

"They think if this person is buying it, if my neighbour is buying there's got to be a reason and I need to get in too," she told the BBC.

Prof Garg compares the rush to what occurred in many Asian nations. She notes that in China for example, there was a greater motivation to stock up on white ply because "there's a thinking that toilet paper can be substituted for tissues and napkins and to make makeshift masks".

Using toilet paper as a medical resource isn't fuelling the Australian demand so far, she says. The local buy-up is driven by fear.

She suggests the situation is unprecedented. Australians have stocked up on household goods before but it's been due to a natural disaster like a bushfire or cyclone, and restricted to certain communities.

"But when it comes to coronavirus, people aren't certain as to how things are going to pan out, or how much worse it's going to get," Prof Garg says.

"They want to be prepared because it's the one thing they can do to get some sense of control."

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Empty shelves as coronavirus "panic buying" hits Australia
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Media captionEmpty shelves as coronavirus "panic buying" hits Australia
Another consumer expert, Dr Rohan Miller from the University of Sydney, believes it is a reflection of an urbanised society and lifestyle where modern convenience reigns supreme.

"We're not used to shortages and scarcity, we're used to being able to pick and choose what we want, when we want. So the rush to get toilet paper is just this sheep mentality to maintain that status," he says.

Soft, white squares of toilet roll - marketed with pictures of puppies and pure snow - are a daily "luxury" that Australians and others just aren't willing to mentally part with.

"I think people want to make sure they have some comforts in their lives if they're going to be shacked up with their family for a long time," he says.

"Toilet paper doesn't really matter - it's just so far down the survival list compared to other things like food or water - but it's just something people cling to as a minimum standard.
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