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Mourinho...how long will he be given?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by remembercolinlee, Jan 1, 2020.

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How long will he be given?

  1. Til we go out of the CL?

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Til the end of the season?

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  3. Til next Oct/Nov?

    13 vote(s)
    54.2%
  4. Will be a success so irrelevant?

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I'm not even saying Jose is without blame, he's certainly made some absolutely disastrous decisions from a selection standpoint but I do also have a degree of sympathy in that he was getting results, regardless of how pretty it was but now without our two star men I'm not sure what people can truly expect. Admittedly I also thought we'd have better defensive organisation to at least try not to lose games if we can't win them but Jose has experimented with numerous selections and formations and yet we're still seeing experienced defenders for the most part having absolute brainfarts, I'm just not sure Jose can coach/ un-coach that.

    Ultimately for me, the guy deserves to have his own team before we judge. We can definitely criticise him this season, I've done that on numerous occasions but the bloke needs at least 6 or 7 of his own players and certainly a pre-season before we even begin to contemplate whether he's been a success or failure.
     
    #321
  2. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    £47m upfront with £21m in clauses for winning the Premier League and Champions League

    ...oh wait, that's the offer that Man Utd made in January, which was accepted, and the only difference is a couple of digits

    You unintentionally stumbled over the real issue last summer: we were the only team to make a serious offer, and Sporting were hoping for an auction - and when that didn't happen they had Fernandes sign a bumper new contract with a hefy release clause of £85m...a hefty release clause they didn't seem too interested in receiving considering they were happy to accept an offer of £17m less than that, which is strange because apparently Levy is the only chairman in world football who tries to pay less than what a club is asking (with the exception of every chairman whose name isn't prefixed with the word "Sheikh")

    And this is what fans continuously fail to grasp about transfers: if your first offer for a first team player from any top flight team is accepted, it means that one of the following is the case
    a.) You have paid the player's release clause
    b.) The other club saw you coming from a mile away
    c.) The player is out of contract soon and the selling club would like to make some money off of them

    Considering that we've been the team that other teams have seen coming from a mile away in the past, namely in 2008 and 2013 when we were flush with cash after various successful tapping-up campaigns, our current approach is far better - after all, our current approach works for Man Utd, doesn't it?
     
    #322
    Spurf likes this.
  3. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Mauricio Pochettino may have been falling apart in 2019 but he knew that Aurier was a ****ing liability and played Foyth at right back.

    He also knew that Eric Dier was done in the midfield. Mourinho's taking the piss byy continuing to select him.

    We've got real problems but constantly switching positions for players like Tanganga and Lo Celso and a different formation, every game, isn't helping anyone, including Mourinho. There's no sign of anything cohesive or progressive anywhere on the pitch that I can see, irrespective of whether I like the bloke or not.

    This is a sensible article, not a hack piece. He sees what a lot of us have been seeing for weeks...

    https://www.football365.com/news/jose-mourinho-tottenham-2-wolves-3-broken-opinion

    Despite not liking him in the least, I'd far rather see him succeed than have to pay off another manager so soon after Poch but he has to sort this mess out. If it wasn't a mess, he'd still be a pundit.
     
    #323
  4. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Jose walked into a mess and has been unlucky with injuries especially Kane and Son.

    My point is and always has been regarding Mourinho, is that he isn’t the right man to rebuild a squad unless you give him unlimited funds. And that was when he was at his peak, for me the game has moved beyond his turgid style of football.

    His tactics are outdated and he’s never been great at finding players (unless it’s the obviously good ones) which Spurs can’t afford anyway.
     
    #324
  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The fact that Dier is saying he shouldn't be playing at DM makes it that much more obvious that he shouldn't be playing as a DM

    But hey, what does Eric Dier know about where Eric Dier should be playing?

    please log in to view this image
     
    #325
  6. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    Spurs points per game tally is up there with any of the teams competing for 4th place since Mourinho arrived - and better than most.
    Considering Kane has been out for a big part of that period, Son is now injured, he's had other injuries and the form of some of the other key players of the last few years dropped off a cliff before he arrived, he's not done too badly in terms of results.
    He can't be held responsible either for signings who haven't done too well yet such as Aurier and N'Dombele.
    He's chopped and changed the personnel as he's probably trying to find out what works and what doesn't.
    He doesn't seem to have worked out what style of play or tactics are effective either.
    But would anybody have done any better in the same circumstances at this stage?
    He's bringing Tanganga through, he got Alli playing for a while, Bergwijn doesn't look a bad signing, Lo Celso seems OK, he's trying to get Dier back to player he was and the team has looked to have more of a goal threat (even without Kane and Son). There are some positives.
    The big negative is that the once reliable defence is in tatters with Alderweireld and Vertonghen on the decline and no protection in front of it. Sissoko's energy is a miss too.
    I doubt he will want to change his methods, which is why he will want to spend big money on the weak areas. Otherwise, you need to be patient and see if the younger players available will be good enough over the next 12-18 months. There is a rebuilding process to take place - and it won't be overnight.
    This is similar to what we have at Utd. I think OGS has made some good signings, but any significant improvements, which will make Utd competitive again, will hinge on the young players getting to the standard required consistently enough. Even the wealthiest club can't just hope to buy ready made star players in every position.
     
    #326
  7. I refuse to buy into the whole “Mourhino is a liability because... well... er... United!” argument.

    As far as I am concerned, he worked miracles at United and people judge him a failure for it.
     
    #327
  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The one tactic he is using that's easy to spot is the asymmetrical fullbacks that allow us to change from a 4231 when defending to a 3421 when attacking, meaning that when Aurier starts that means Davies starts, or when Sessegnon starts Foyth starts

    ...the issue is that Poch was using the exact same tactic, with Foyth as the sitter and (due to Sessegnon being injured at the start of the season and lacking fitness for a stretch) Rose was the runner, so all Steptonho has really done is swap who runs and who sits

    More than anything else, this system has been plagued with issues from the start. First of all we've never had the full compliment available at any point this season as there's always been at least one of the components ruled out through injury (especially at LB, where Sessegnon and Davies have both had lengthy spells on the sidelines), but more than anything else the implementation has always been wrong: using the system when playing THAT BASTARD DIAMOND was a real misstep as it left our flanks exposed so the runner couldn't get forward due to being occupied by having an opposition wide player rampaging towards them, while currently we're being hamstrung by having a right flank that's completely incapable of playing that system as Aurier leaves gaps in defence that Lucas never bothers to try and fill that either leaves the flank exposed or has Sissoko drifting wide to plug the gap and leaving a gap in central midfield

    The system would work if we had peak Lennon or a fully fit Lamela on the right as it would maintain a semblance of a shape, but as we don't our shape becomes an amorphous blob very quickly and that causes the entire structure of the team to collapse
     
    #328
  9. "In my eyes, Jose is not a manager who challenges for the top four. You get him in to win a title or the league. The club have to look at themselves and ask what is the point of bringing Jose in if they are not going to give him the artillery he needs to go and get the job done.

    I would hope come the summer he is given everything that he needs. He obviously cannot go and buy everybody but the club needs to bend far more than it did for Pochettino - they should have given him what he deserved."

    (Jermaine Jenas, BBC Football)


    This is exactly how I feel about the situation.
     
    #329
  10. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested in which Chairmen have had a better than 30% success rate. Measured by improvement in League position, qualification for CL, improvement in revenue etc, Levy is the best chairman we've ever had.
    Our current season would be the best of any of the ten before Levy started measured by league position or progress in Europe. We are still in the FA Cup too.
    I think it is probably time for Levy to step down as 20 years in such a job is enough for anyone but I doubt anyone else will actually be an improvement. Which successful PL chairman should we be after to replace him?
     
    #330
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  11. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    So he has basically taken you back 20 years?
     
    #331
  12. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    Hmmm

    please log in to view this image
     
    #332
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  13. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    You think it's a sensible article I think it's bollocks as much of the analysis seem to be in football. If Spurs are 'broken' as described how come we dominated possession and had enough chances to have won the game easily? We missed the chances we had and Wolves, who had very few, took theirs. Would missing chances have anything to do with not having our TWO top goalscorers? If Dele had taken his chances would he be described as the crap player many seem to think? We lost because we didn't convert our chances to goals and Wolves won because they took theirs, very simple, just like football itself.
     
    #333
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  14. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Never suggested replacing him...just making the point that he has employed 10 managers and only 3 delivered.
    Levy, ENIC and the board have massively moved the club forward but in my opinion there are questions to be answered and making Jose our manager is one of them.
     
    #334
  15. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what game you watched Spurf, yes Spurs dominated possession but Wolves actually had 1 more shot (14-15) only 1 less on target (4-5) and more corners (5-4)

    The issues up front due to injuries are nothing compared to the defence which concedes chances and goals for fun atm.
     
    #335
  16. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    If you was a serial winner and had amassed more trophies than the club you are managing...would you take the previous manager’s take on everything or try something out yourself?

    I don’t blame Jose for thinking he can get a tune out of our players...he’s hardly going to just carry on the philosophy of the previous manager who failed to deliver any silverware.

    It’s a transitional period....we were dogshit and very experimental in Poch’s first year with stop start performances...but hey guess what...he was given time.
     
    #336
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  17. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    Stats against Wolves

    Tottenham - 65% possesion, 642 passes, 46 long balls(7%)
    Wolves - 35% possesion, 340 passes, 71 long balls(20%)

    Contrary to everything I’ve heard the Jose outers bemoaning after every game...this game they got what they wanted


    We still lost

    and the same people are still moaning

    Me thinks winning is important after all
     
    #337
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  18. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    But what is he trying out? There doesn’t seem to be a plan or end game, it just seems to be a game by game thing with different formations and tactics each time.

    He wasn’t brought in to have a transitional period, if Levy wanted a transitional period then he would have gone for a project manager as you say. Mourinho was brought in to get top 4, anything less and he’s failed.
     
    #338
  19. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    He’s trying out a heap of **** players who don’t have it in them to up their game.

    let’s see what he does with his own players

    wether he was brought in to guide us through a transition or not is irrelevant. It’s what he is facing thanks to the ownership and previous management.

    Every manager is always offered a summer transfer window and a pre season before he is judged. It reminds me of when we had Graham and AVB....ex rival gaffers.

    pathetic attitude from our fan base
     
    #339
  20. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    You mean like Sherwood had?

    Not a surprise that he wasn't, given his previous job was for one of our key rivals...our own U21 team
     
    #340

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