Bye Bye Hoddle is a god

We should not be considering banning anyone simply because we do not agree with them. There are too many people on every teams board, who take a different point of view as a personal insult.

 

Hoddle is a god eats cat food. True story.

 

I'll admit, sometimes, on the odd occasion, I'll say things to get a rise out of some of you. But it is never meant offensively, and I do it to play the clown rather the antagonist. It's like how you would rib a mate of yours about something that happened to him, rather than taking punches at a stranger. Most of you seem to be able to understand that and take it in the manner in which it was meant.

But - and I do want to stress this - the vast majority of the time I have absolutely no intention to wind any of you up; I'm here to enter into a debate. Being an outsider and a supporter of your historical rivals it's highly likely that anything I say that is even mildly critical of your club is going to be blown out of all proportion in your minds, and the temptation for you is that you will want to attack me for being a Spurs supporter rather than respond to my comments, because that gives you an easy way out, rather than answer difficult points honestly. I always bear this in mind when I make my comments and, if anything, I greatly tone down what I would say to, say, supporters of LFC. I would ask only that some of you bear all of this in mind, too, before you wade in with your personal insults.

So, Jayram, mostly, 90% of the time, I am not on a wind-up. It's not a question of trying to fool anyone, and the idea would never have crossed my mind. You'll always know when I enter into any gentle ribbing, and would fully expect everyone to spot it

I don't know if there has been a shift of power going on in London over the past few seasons. I don't even know what that means. The only reason I use that term is because I find it amusing and, if I'm being honest, it alarms one or two of you.

What I do know is this. AFC has steadily been getting worse, failing to win things, letting points slip at the ends of seasons, and all culminating in losing some superb players in one transfer window. Losing Fab would have been bad enough, but losing Nasri, too, is absolutely crippling. Something is wrong at the heart of AFC, that goes beyond mere bad luck or coincidence. I don't ask you to agree with me on this, but that is my opinion and the conclusion that I have drawn based on the evidence as I see it.

Mean while, we have grown stronger. We have moved from a mid-table side to one that all professional pundits expect to be challenging for a CL place, and it's been like that for the past two completed seasons, and looks likely to continue into the future. Certainly we are one of the favourites in many pundits' eyes to finish 4th this season.


Do I believe that we will finish above you this season? Yes, I do, for reasons that I have stated in previous posts. Am I on the wind-up when I say these things? Well, if I am, then you must be wound up by almost every professional pundit out there, because they are all saying the same thing. I cannot help the fact that some of you appear to be wound-up by people expressing a reasonable opinion.

 

Yes, Mr LD&C and I have had our differences, but I think time has permitted each of us to take stock of the situation, and to realise that, actually, neither or us are intentionally nasty blokes

A bit of well-timed and good-natured banter is a bonus to a site, not a blight.

 

I dare say that a shift of power remains to be seen but there are signs that even the most hardened Arsenal fan should in all candour note and it is that since the appointment of Ole 'Arry, Spurs have narrowed the gap to Arsenal. There have been games between us that we should have won but didn't and our games against you in the EPL last season bears testimony to the narrowing of that gap. Whether this will over time translate into an actual power shift which I understand to be a consistent reversal of finishing positions in the EPL and participation in the CL over a number of seasons remains to be seen. Right now though it is closer than it has ever been.

 

Thats fair enough, but be aware that football 'pundits' are some of the worst wums in the business - for two reasons. One, they are paid to be sensational and two because they are just like any other biased fan. Who in the world for instance could take anything Hansen says as serious? I hope you are not basing your confidence on what pundits say. Every year for the last 5 years the pundits have said Arsenal will be out of the top 4. Proper football people are not in any way writing Arsenal off. All the top managers believe, and have said, that Arsenal are one of six teams that can still WIN the title. Even your own manager is sensible on the subject, realising that Arsenal and Liverpool are the teams Spurs have to overcome to get fourth. Dont believe the hype - case in point, Tony Woodcock was quoted as saying Arsenal were in a relgation battle this year. He said nothing of the sort - I watched the interview that he gave. He said that Arsenal needed to get back on track quickly, not in 3-4 weeks as they might find themsleves in the relegation places. The media will take sound bites and use them to sell their toilet rags.

Take away the sensation and media bullshit, and here's the truth.

Arsenal outplayed Newcastle, got a good away draw, and could easily have won. A clear penalty not given and had to settle for a draw once Gervinho was sent off. Defence looked excellent that day.

Arsenal and Liverpool had an even game despite us missing key players. At the time of Frimpongs sending off, Arsenal were taking over the midfield. The first booking for Frimpong was scandalous - watch it back.

We got destroyed by Utd, but our team was decimated by injuries and suspensions. It has happened before. In similar cucumstances we lost 6-1 to Utd a few years back. It didnt signal the end of Arsenal.

We beat Swansea - unconvincingly but a clean sheet nonetheless.

We were VERY unlucky against Blackburn. Two own goals conceded, and an obvious offside goal conceded. Countless chances missed, and a stonewall penalty not given to Walcott.

Even with an even dose of luck (its unlikely we will keep a run of 3 own goals , an offside goal conceded, two clear penalties not awarded, and several missed chances, every 5 games), we'd have 10 points and be in 4th right now, despite not playing well.

Throw in two wins and a draw against tough CL opponents.

No doubt our defence has looked shaky - it was last year too, but we finished above you.

We are 2 points behind Spurs and 5 behind the top 4. There are 33 games left.

Its been a bad start for us, but not much better for Spurs in truth. Lost two games in the league out of four and out of a trophy already. The trophy Spurs fans apparently dont care about, but the same one used in the 'Spurs have won a trophy more recently than Arsenal' debate.

Its very early, and somewhat deluded to claim 4th is Spurs' to lose, and the 'pundits' and media hype sourrounding Arsenal is acting as great comfort for Spurs fans (which is why it is so easy to believe for them).

 

Jayram

I think teams make their own luck as well and while we may have been down on luck at Ewood Park, we also made life difficult for ourselves. There are problems up and down the pitch for us and a failure to address this will see us having to play catchup if we happen to be mired in the lower half of the league. I think a Top 3 place is out and while fourth place may be still within reach, it will surely be beyond us if our form continues. Our passage through any competition is now more difficult because every team out there will know that we are beatable. These are not easy times my friend.

 

'You make your own luck' is just a saying Robin, with no substance. Its up there with 'luck evens itself out over a season'. We certainly do have problems, but the start we have had is down to below par play and bad luck. If both continue then we are indeed in trouble. I am still betting that we'll reach a level of form to finish above Spurs - who are not a great side.

 

Well, we'll see. Arsene has to get a lot done though and a lot of which seems to go against the grain where he is concerned. We really need a convincing result against Bolton this weekend because the match following that won't be an easy one.

 

Agreed. There is everything to play for, for all teams, not just our respective sides.

That is true. However, the fact remains that we lost to the two side who are going to be battling it out for 1st and 2nd. Had we won against either of those two (in addition to the two games we've one, including our absolute demolition of LFC), we would have been aiming for 2nd or 3rd. I doubt many sides are going to get even a draw against United or City this season.

The other very significant factor is that we didn't have Modric, Parker or Ade for either of those two games. Harry has said that he was aware we were far too open. That is unlikely to happen again this season.

Yes, I admit, there are double-standards among a lot of Spurs fans, but that applies to every club's supporters, including yours. Therefore, this is not something you can use to throw at us, because it's endemic in football fandom.

It may be over-optimistic for fans to predict a top 4 finish, but not deluded. It would be deluded only if there was absolutely no basis for making such a claim, and clearly is not the case. AFC is in disarray, and we absolutely demolished LFC - we have every good reason to hope for a top 4 finish, on that basis.

I think the word "deluded" (like the expression "wum") is used far too readily to shout down opposing views, even when those views are reasonably held. Just because you don't like my views does not make it wrong for me to hold them.

And I can assure you that my feet are too firmly placed on the ground for anyone to justly label me deluded.

 

I even heard some spurs fans claim last year that van der vart was on a par and as good as dennis begkamp, if that doesn't show you how delusional they are, I don't know what dose. I mean have you ever heard anything more ridiculous

 

people said the same thing when overmars and petit left to join barca, overmars was a better player than nasri, and I would rather have petit in the current side than fab, not as good an attacking player but better all round, could attack, defend, very physical and had great determination and leadership, basically everything fab dose not have, im pretty sure we won 2 of the next 4 premier league titles after they left. Outside fans and pundits have been saying we are finished for a decade now and we keep proving then wrong.

 

And yet you've still managed to have the worst start to a league campaign in your entire history

Who says you're finished? Certainly not me. Sure, I think you are going to struggle this season, but I fully expect you to recover from it for next season. Not finishing 4th does not equate to you being finished, it equates to you struggling to deal with the loss of your two best players.

It's extremely difficult to hold a sensible debate with fans who like to jump to the extremes of every argument.

 

I would agree Mr E that Petit would probably be a better all rounder for us than Cesc, the latter's creativity notwithstanding. As for leadership, well I think Denilson should have had more of a platform with his respect to his remarks of January this year. I find it confusing that the leaders Arsene Wenger has selected over the past few years have rather been poor in this particular regard. Still, he is the manager......

 

You know, I very much get the feeling that I have more faith in your manager and your squad than most of you do!

Never before have I been in a position whereby I am considered a wum for trying to convince opposing supporters that they are not as bad as they all seem to think

Am I the only one who sees the irony in all of this?

 

Settle down pal, just because some people think you're talking rubbish doesn't mean we are not allowed to give our opinion, take a chill pill

 

Hoddle is an arsenal fan. True story.

 

I think the amount of views and replies this thread has attracted demonstrates why its good to allow the opinions of other fans on to our board. I.e it provokes debate and frankly the board would be boring with just Arsenal fans on it.

 

HIAG

You clearly stated that 4th was 'Spurs' to lose'. There is no basis in fact for that statement - even on this season's very early results. Throw in what has actually happened for a decade and ahalf, and the statement is indeed deluded. Now the statement you made may have been in the 10% of your comments designed to provoke a reaction, but it still comes across as deluded.

Its fine to be optimistic, so a phrase such as 'I think we have a good chance of finishing fourth' is more reasonable and not deluded.

 

Anyone who knows me will probably tell you that I am the most chilled person they know.