I think you've read my reply incorrectly Mephisto! Vettel certainly didn't create Newey. Perhaps my response to AGloria should have been more specific. I was agreeing with his reference to the dream team which included more RBs than Red Bull; with Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn and Rubens Barrichello to name but three important ingredients.
You may look at my last few posts and come to the conclusion that I am a Schumacher fan,, but I'm not in fact I don't like him, but I tell it as I see it, and I see that modern day drivers have less and less influence on car design and development, probably due to the testing ban..
I did put a caviat to that in my next post concerning the damaging effects of the testing ban on the drivers ability to supply the team with meaningful feed back.
I think the testing ban has the opposite effect. Drivers have less time to set their car up and need excellent feel to make the most of the limited running. I also think it rewards good engineers as well, a trial and error approach will get you nowhere. In that respect the current RRA favours Newey, and in my earlier post I was playing Devil's advocate, Vettel has all the aces right now being at Red Bull, but Schumacher had everything in his favour (including the sport's governing body) when he was dominant a decade ago.
As much as I think Vettel is an awesome driver and will beat Schumachers records I can't read these posts that suggest Vettel took Red-Bull from a back of the grid team to world champions. Before 2009 there was unlimited testing which favoures the richest teams who can simply test continously and the aero regs had been unchanged (majorly) for years so the richest teams were so close to perfection in the regulations Red-Bull couldn't get near. In 2009 it was the biggest regulation change in if I remember correctly 25 years so there was an awful lot of potential to be unlocked and developed and everyone was starting again only this time the richer teams couldn't simply test and test and test towards it as McLaren were proof, at this point Adrian Neweys genius thought the best design and its been improved ever since - something ferrari and McLaren did not do: thus Red-Bull gained an advantage that can't be caught by out-testing them. flexi-wings have helped as well Are people seriously suggesting Vettel is driving a lower midfield car to poles and wins or that he is the one designing a dominant car?? Yes he is one of the best, maybe ever but Newey is the reason for the success.
Yes. Actually I agree with this view too AG. P.S. to Mephisto: whether you are or are not a fan of Schumacher's I don't mind! I think you are a great contributor to a forum and that is what matters. And for that matter, I don't mind Manny's hero worship either! (I bet he's secretly reading this… Hi Manny!)
I agree with what pirelli man said. Red Bull have said on numerous occasions that Vettel is fascinated by the technical aspect of F1, and enjoys development and setup work. He's probably on first name terms with every component on his car. Actually, being Vettel, he's probably named every component. "and this is steve, the rear suspension unit" etc.
He only became my favourite after Suzuka 89 when Prost rammed him off the road to steal the title with the compliance of the FIA, up until then Prost was my favourite and I couldn't stand Senna, but I can't stand such hypocritical cheating, so i cheered every time he stuck it to my fallen idol. The acceptance of cheating is one of the core problems of society. Don't applaud Schumacher cheating to win, then cry when if life savings are wiped out by a banker trying to cheat his way to victory in the financial markets, 2 sides of the same coin.
@Miggins I am starting to understand where you are coming from now. But what exactly is it that you call cheating? By blocking(2 moves) Hamilton in Monza? By "squeezing" Barichello (is far from a squeeze if you look at other angels than was shown at bbc) last year? ARe you talking about his beneton years with driver aid claims that has never been proven he used. If he did use them you really cant blame the driver for that in my oppinion. I doubt you would have questioned it if the team told you that everything was in order if it was you in his shoes. Blame him for ferraris connection with the FIA? seriously how is that Schumis fault? I remember ONE incident that is morally questionable and possibly could be called "trying to cheat" and that is when he parked his car in the middle of the road at the monaco grand prix was it 2004 or 2006? Trying to end qualifying prematurely. I am not against that you have different views than me and have a less tolerance of rule bending. The above is just interesting cause I am curious. What I question is why you have to start writing the same old thing in every single thread weather the thread is actually about him or not. Understand I am a huge fan of him and I do not share your views at all. It is not like run away crying or anything but it do bring my mood down having to read it over and over. I can start saying negative stuff, true or not, about those who you cheer for as well. For example I think Vettel is absolutely ******ed and a spoiled little brat. He needs someone to whipe that smirk of his baby face. Every single race I wish he will crash and Webber will win instead. The reason for this is how he acts in interviews. There are an undertone of complete arrogance that I don't like. And he always have to say a subtle comment that puts him above the others. Furthermore webber who is such a decent and happy bloke got very mistreated last year with the "wing incident"/"number 2" driver and such. yaddayaddablah... Ok I just lied, it is actually not true that I dislike Vettel that much, yes he annoys me a little but not at all to the extent that I just wrote. Just trying to show how pointless that kind of talk is and I am positive that it brings down the mood of vettel fans reading how other people can think that when they have a very clear and completely different view. Miggins do you understand what I am trying to say? That its funner for everyone if we talk less about the negative stuff and more about the positive stuff. The question here was who you thought were gonna be remember as greatest in the future. So instead of writing that it depends if he starts to cheat as much as Schumacher etc, you could have just said that It's too early to say. Which is basically the same thing but without the negativity.
It's funny, Senna suggested that Schumacher was using illegal traction control, and lo and behold, Illegal traction control settings were found buried within the software of the Benetton, denials of it's use were made by schumacher and his Manager and team Principle, a certain Flavio Briatore, a man subsequently kicked out of the sport for cheating. then we have the numerous ramming incidents. The compliance of the FIA was disgusting, their need to have more exposure in Europes richest country outweighing their need to keep the sport fair was disgraceful, yet the ban him a season or two later for the same thing, but only because DSQing him from the championship was really meaningless because he'd already lost it. And we -gdiffer in MW and SV, never hear Vettel slag Webber off, ok, maybe once when he said Webber was 2 faced over wingate, which is a statement I totally agree with. Vettel won't win as many titles as Schumacher because the FIA won't be as complicent and he actually has some real competition in Alonso, Hamilton, Button and sooner or later Kobayashi
To answer the original question. All it takes is a major regulation change and things could all turn around, look at McLaren and Ferrari in 09. Vettel is on target for beating Michaels records but who knows what will happen in 2013 and beyond. Adrian doesnt always build great cars, look recently at Red Bull in 07/08...rubbish cars at the back that fell behind Torro Rosso.
@Chris Maybe he just saw my replies to miggins ? @Miggins I didn't like MSC while senna was driving but after senna died and few more years it changed. Simply because he was the best, and not because of his ethics. The ethics is something I have came to accept over the years. FIA could never PROVE that he had actually used launch control, only that the car had the potential of using it with software installed. Though, it doesnt really matter weather he did use it or not, cause you cant blame MSC for that. No driver would have protested against their own team and refused to drive the car. Or do you think it was michaels invention and software that he installed in the beneton? Again, FIA-Ferrari relations have nothing to do with MSC beeing a cheat or not. Do you expect him to tell them to go firetruck themselves and choose to drive for another team? yea right. And his crashes and blocks etc. That's really not more than some of the other drivers on the grid. Its just that he have had such a long career he have inevitably been involved in more incidents, both good and bad. And a crash or unfair block etc, I fail to see how that would be cheating anyway? braking the rules, sure, but not cheating. Finally, I want to clarify that I only wrote about Vettel to make a POINT. Vettel is a great driver, only time will tell how good he really is. Though I DO cheer for Webber, because I like his personality better but I still do not bring Vettel into every single topic saying how bad I think he is in different ways. That would serve no purpose and would only be disrespectful for those that like him and cheer for him.
Reading this thread with interest. I still find it a bit sad, as I did when i helped get the F1 board here up and running in January, that people can't respect all the drivers for what they bring to the races. At least the arguments seem to be a bit more respectful than back then.
I have to bite my tongue on occasion, but in the main it's not too bad at all here. I'm still trying to figure if some comments are engineered to bait certain people that surface with new accounts... and I think they possibly are. It's much better than the old 606 though, that place made my blood boil... Here you can have a good debate with few downright insulting posts and the community as a whole seems to deal with fools quite well.
606 was rubbish but I'm glad I managed to get some good posters from over there like Bando to turn up here. I lost my enthusiasm recently for F1 after the Sky news but saw the Senna film and am off to Silverstone next year for the GP so you might see a bit more of me on here again, for better or worse, am feeling good about F1 again. If you go on to the first threads here you can see how bad it was here at first though, like a wum war! Much better now.
