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Birmingham City v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Kiko did have a stinker yesterday, you ignore the umpteen times I’ve praised him. If that had been BPF you’d have wrote a page on it.

    Alioski had a poor game, he is a LB and he needs to learn to defend and not get caught forward leaving us exposed, or not roll on the floor like he has been shot leaving team mates to defend while he play acts. If that had been Ayling you’d have written two pages on it. I’ve defended Ayling so many times, he has always been my first choice but yesterday despite an assist and a goal I still felt he was below par. His previous game I actually said he was one of the worst players.

    Nketiah never scored despite being in a game where we scored 5 he never defended from the front, he never actually got into a scoring position, he never actually had a shot on target, if that had been Bamford you’d have written three pages on it.

    Everyone else realises it is Phillips role to orchestrate the direction of play from the back, if you can’t see that you’re on your own.

    If we get a replacement for Nketiah I don’t mind in the slightest him going back, Bamford is far more important to this team than Eddie. Our season does not rely on Eddie staying.

    Bottom line is I don’t have a single favourite player, they all have a role to play, I think they’re all equally as important but I’m not going to say someone had a great game when they didn’t. As for Phillips I’ve not mentioned his performance for the last 3-4 games as it’s not stood out to be better or worse than the other 11.

    I can’t remember who I’ve said my MOM would be in each but I know it wasn’t Phillips. I defend him against your obsessive hate feast but he wouldn’t have had a mention yesterday if you hadn’t directed the question at me.

    Now stop getting all salty and bitter, we’re top of the table so Bielsa and all 11 who start must be doing something right.
     
    #421
  2. 1964white

    1964white Well-Known Member

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    Crazy game.....We attacked like lions & defended like schoolboys.

    Great entertainment & incredible scenes at St Andrews but give me 1-0 or 2-1 victories any day. Fantastic result in the end however there were more holes in that performance than my grandfathers vest.

    Ironically we scored five goals without our regular No.9 but his stand-in Eddie wasn't on the score sheet.

    Positives

    Three points.
    We're top of the league.
    First time we've scored five goals in the championship since September 2017
    We are relentless & never give up.
    Luke Ayling wonder goal.
    Ayling our best attacking player drove us to an astounding victory in the 2nd half.
    Ayling's celebration.
    Costa's performance & his class finish.
    Harrison's dink pass to Costa for our opening goal
    Our nearest contenders continue to slip up.

    Negatives

    We allow teams back into a game when we should be killing off a poor sides like Brum especially when we are two or three up.
    We've leaked 11 goals in three weeks after conceding only 10 goals up to mid-December.
    The form of Casilla, Cooper, White, Phillips & Klich has dipped considerably of late.
    Our full-backs/wingers rounded far too easily, also caught out of position far too often.
    Once again we appeared extremely vulnerable at corners/set-pieces.
    Alioski is a poor defender.

    Ratings

    3 Casilla
    9 Ayling.....not for his defensive work I may add.
    4 White
    4 Cooper
    5 Alioski
    5 Phillips
    8 Costa
    3 Klich
    7 Dallas
    7 Harrison
    7 Nketiah
     
    #422
  3. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    I realise that you attended the match, so will have had a better appreciation than me, but I think your scoring is a bit lop-sided. Both Alioski & Ayling provided 2 assists. Both defended poorly. Ayling scored a goal, being the only difference in performance I noted. Does that really qualify him for an additional 4 points in your rating? I suspect not.

    Next, you mention their poor defensive performance, but have you done so with a fuller appreciation of the team's game plan? Do you think it's a coincidence that both were in full attack mode & driving through the middle? And not for the first game either. And why should the whole defence be marked down for defending when Bielsa himself has stated very clearly & very often that defence starts with our front men. I saw no evidence of this, yet you award Nketia a 7, for instance. For what? Being a headless chicken? Scored zero. Zero assists. Zero effective defensive duties. Zero holding up of the ball. I could go on, but the gist of it is that you've awarded him a 7 just for turning up. Equally, how did Hilda deserve an 8? Great goal, no question, but what else? Couldn't tackle a fish supper, like Nketia, and therein lies the root cause of our ineffective defending. We didn't defend from the front. And yet you score them so highly for failing in a major part of their duties.

    Now I realise that everyone scores differently, depending on their viewing experience, and no doubt a preexisting expectation level. I think you've been a bit harsh with Klich, for instance, but nevertheless think he was very poor myself. Perhaps a 4 or 5. And yet I've read more than one review where apparently everything revolved around Klich. Didn't see it myself, but opinions are opinions!
     
    #423
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  4. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Klich is knackered. A shadow of his former self. Played every game last season and this season. Add in the Poland games and the Bielsa training and the lad is bound to be feeling it a bit. Unfortunately Forshaw and Shak and Roberts are struggling and therefore he has to play every game.

    I didn't watch yesterdays game but the highlights clearly show Nketiah chasing back a good 20 or 30 yards in the build up to their first goal. I think this shows he is willing if not as consistent as Bamford. I think he deserves a few more starts to see if he can get match fit. If he gets match fit he could easily become a key man. Him and Bamford could both get us up. It's too much to rely on just one striker all season. If anything we probably need another one in to help out.
     
    #424
  5. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Agree about Klich, but I don't think it's his physical condition that's the issue - I think he's mentally exhausted. As soon as the cavalry arrive, Bielsa should give him a couple of weeks off, imo.

    Agree also that Nketiah was chasing back, but for a man with such apparent pace, he never, ever managed to catch up & tackle. Always seemed to be running behind the guy with the ball. He was very guilty of not maintaining the press. We got away with it this time, but he needs to learn how crucial his defensive role is. Running doesn't cut it.
     
    #425
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  6. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    I agree on Nketiah. Bielsa has said as much. His development at Arsenal has been solely as the goalscoring predator in and around the box. Bielsa is trying to adapt his game to the more Bamford role. Given that Arteta is the protege of Pep, who is a protege of Bielsa, he might want Eddie to stay and develop that side of his game as Arteta will use the high press. Question is will it nullify his finishing by not being in the right place to score and do we really want to develop a player for another club in our promotion push?
     
    #426
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  7. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    I know I might be reading too much into this, but did anyone else think that Eddies clapping and waving to the Leeds Utd fans was him saying his goodbyes. Probably just me over thinking again..<ok>
     
    #427
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  8. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Strike my above comment. Thread on JA saying Eddie has been recalled, so seems you are right not me <laugh>
     
    #428
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  9. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    It's a strange one how we would all score players, I also wonder how much we would score them immediately after a game and then 24 hours later would we give them a same score on reflection...

    I think my highest Leeds rating would have been 7 for Costa possibly Harrison too and then nobody would have got over a 6 from me, I'd agree with 1964White score for Kiko and Alioski, around 3-4 for each from me then I'm more with you WJ Nketiah maybe a 5 (yesterday straight after he would have been a 4 at best) and Ayling 6 certainly not a 9 from me. I know he did some good stuff attacking but defence was poor, not as poor as the opposite side though.
     
    #429
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  10. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Everyone said Eddie will play a big part in our promotion push, I just hope it isn't scoring against us for his new Championship club. I'm okay with him leaving, I'm equally okay if he had stuck around. The downside will be him leaving before we have played WBA as that is going to be a very weak bench with no alternative to Bamford.
     
    #430
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  11. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    :(
     
    #431
  12. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    I posted this elsewhere so looks like he was saying goodbye. Over to victor
    And rads now
     
    #432
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  13. LeedsLover

    LeedsLover Well-Known Member

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    My take on the Brum goals against seeing as Milkyboy and one other asked.

    1st goal, not Kiko's fault. A good cross to an unmarked Brum player in front of our goal. However,

    Ayling come across and went to ground, you never go to ground in front of player ready to shoot at our goal. The amount of time it took Ayling to go to ground is the same amount of time needed to take one more step left and have more chance of blocking the shot.

    Have a look where our Mr calm is, still outside our penalty area. When Nikita is trying to chase down the Brum player with ball, have a look at Phillips and his sense of urgency and inability to read game.

    2nd goal, Good cross from a corner, good header back into box, Kiko got it first attempt, nearly got it second attempt.

    You'll see a Brum player purposely trying to impede Kiko, not allowed. You'll also see another Brum player (maybe same player) purposely fouling Kiko off the ball just before the corners took. You're not allowed to touch the keeper intentionally, it's called impeding the keeper.

    Kiko could have cleared it better but a Brum player was in front of him. For me, I believed Kiko was fouled twice, once off the ball, and once when the header came in. If the keeper is going for the ball, and an opposing player attempts to go for ball but pushes the keeper then it's impeding and a foul. However, different refs will see it differently, if indeed they did see the impeding. Tony Dorigo doesn't think it was a foul but a player made contact with the keeper, which looked intentional to me.

    3rd goal, this is an hard one to call simply because, a keeper makes a decision to come, or stay put on his line. Keeper made his decision but didn't get there quick enough. People will have their opinions on it, but a keeper makes the decision to come or stay, both can be the wrong decision, or one can be the wrong decision. Like I said, Kiko made his decision but wasn't quick enough. In all fairness Kiko was partially to blame cos he didn't get there quick enough..

    4th goal, not Kikos fault. When you look at goal, Ayling was caught wrong side of player that scored. Also, take another look where our Mr calm is, outside the penalty box, caught out again; in all fairness, so were a couple of other players too.

    Video shows different angles from the highlights.

     
    #433
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  14. w.c.dukenfield

    w.c.dukenfield Well-Known Member

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    It seems harsh to say Aylings defending was poor when his attacking play was largely responsible for the win.
     
    #434
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  15. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Goals two and three was shocking goalkeeping, no foul for me. I've never been convinced by Kiko, admittedly better that last year but nonetheless too many opposition shots on target seem to go into our net.
     
    #435
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  16. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    That’s because he’s ****ing useless.

    Apart from his incompetence yesterday, in the previous match against Preston the shot went in right in the middle of the goal, just alongside where Casilla was standing.

    I should imagine his saves to shots ratio is terrible.
     
    #436
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  17. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Well far harsher assessment than me <laugh>
     
    #437
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  18. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Losing Nketiah won’t be so bad as long as we keep this Nikita bloke.
     
    #438
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  19. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    When you assess players though, do you assess them based on personal expectation, or what you believe BIELSA wanted from them? I lean towards the latter, hence my easy forgiveness of our FBs defensive frailties. They're there to attack. That's their primary purpose in Bielsaball. Bielsa's game is always about risking defence in favour of attack. Both did exceptionally well in that respect, their haul between them being 4 assists & 1 goal. I'm pretty sure that Bielsa will be happy with their contribution. I'm not so sure he'll be as happy about the front line's abdication from their defensive responsibilities. That's the exact reason why we were subjected to wave after wave of attack, leaving us with our lowest possession %age this season.
     
    #439
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  20. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    It's why I think Bielsa persists with Casilla. His swiftness of distribution is fantastic.
     
    #440
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