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Old Fart Lets Off Again

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by saintKlopp, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. saintKlopp

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    My contention is that technology is the problem - not the solution.
    When I was a kid, a teenager, a young man, I went to a lot of games. There was no screen, we watched the game from whatever vantage point we had, and that was that. When the officials decided against you you'd call them names and sing dog's abuse at them, regardless of whether they were right or not. We would talk about our joy or righteous indignation on the way home and then wait for the next game.
    There was one match on telly, decided in advance of course - because they only had one OB team to cover it.

    Slowly it changed - more matches were covered, then the dreaded "post match analysis" was introduced. Some ex-players, who would previously have been required to pursue some gainful employment after their playing careers subsided could now get paid to sit around and pontificate about footballing minutiae to their hearts' content.
    Moving on, we have a situation where every incident can be covered at almost any angle and at speeds which give an entirely different impression from that gained through "real time". Every tiny error of judgement committed by players and arbiters is treated like a heinous crime by those with the advantage of technology that the "offenders" themselves have no access to.
    So, whilst before we would berate the officials or the "dirty bastard" opponents and move on, we're now treated to an almost forensic analysis of every mistimed tackle, every tug or nudge on an opponent and every rubbish decision made by an official. Rather than accept the fallibilities and indiscretions of a load of blokes chasing a ball around at breakneck speed for an hour and a half we expect the game to be conducted with the pre-programmed precision of a computer game and get all indignant when someone gets something wrong.

    And what's the solution to all this technological troublemaking? Well, more technology of course. Let's take the game even further away from its sporting origins and turn it into an exercise in digital jiggery-pokery.

    The culmination of all this analytical arsing about is the disallowed Firmino goal against Villa. Regardless of whether or not you think he was on (he was), what possible difference can a bloody eighth of an inch make?
    The offside rule was brought in to prevent blatant goal-hanging, not take things to such ridiculous lengths as these. If the margin is that fine, how can any linesman be expected to see that in real-time - and does it really matter? In the past, you'd grumble and forget it, now it rumbles on because we can see it was a mistake and we're pissed off that the mistake was allowed to stand.
    The technology is meant to help us get things right, but mostly all it's doing is shining a cruel light on where we get things wrong.
    We live in a gadget-happy world where the prevailing attitude seems to be "we've got it so we're gonna use it", but is it really enhancing our experience?
     
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  2. saintKlopp

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    Summary (for those with attention-span of an old goldfish):

    I'm an old fart.
     
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  3. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    I actually read every words <yikes>


















    Whilst having a 2am **** ;)
     
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  4. Bumps

    Bumps Well-Known Member

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    That OP can be slightly tweaked and applied to nearly everything
    Sadly I agree with most of it
    It is a really (really) long winded way (hypocrisy alert) of saying
    It wasn’t like that in my day

    are you watching any films/listening to music from the past and saying/thinking
    They don’t make ‘em like that anymore lmao
     
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  5. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I'm getting old myself I think as I seem to apply this logic to everything in life which makes me stubborn and that's hypocrisy.

    The answer lies somewhere in-between, VAR was the first step too far, were changing football into an American sport where they rely on technology as it works in those sports. It doesn't in football, the game is too fast and the fan reactions are completely different to sports where short breaks are the norm.

    They need to change the way VAR is used and straight away.

    The extreme coverage I like, the post match I rarely watch so neither really bothers me and I'm happy for them to be part of the game as I can choose.
     
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  6. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    You can still watch crap football played by a local team

    Modern top flight football is now also a massive entertainment business

    And when there's lots of money at stake certain teams and certain officials can be influenced in certain ways :bandit:

    Extra oversight is a necessity of the financial implications of decisions

    The idea of letting some #bentasfuck guy from Greater Manchester have sole power to decide whether a league win worth hundreds of millions of pounds go to a team from Manchester or not is madness
     
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  7. saintKlopp

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    Perhaps, but not every innovation is an improvement.
     
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  8. saintKlopp

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    My point is that even disregarding possible unconscious bias or daft conspiracy theories, human officials cannot possibly detect the fine details that retrospective technology does, so all we're doing is highlighting the inadequacies of humans in this respect. So, do we hand over all decisions to tech, and do away with people? Is that where we want the game to go?
    Then this leads me to my next answer........
     
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  9. saintKlopp

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    ....And if the decisions in the studio are still guided by those #bentasfuck officials, where's the improvement?
     
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  10. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    A balance between human decisions and technology is the answer, goal line technology is a good example it works well and nobody argues and it takes seconds.
     
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  11. saintKlopp

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    It's black and white, and needs no deliberation. Because some tech is beneficial doesn't mean all is.
     
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  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I agree. At the moment VAR has not solved any of the issues where there is debate about decisions so it's useless. It could be useful if they learn from it and make the right changes, the first thing that has to go is the time it takes to decide.

    There should be a ref at the pitch side monitor and he should be alerted to any possible errors and he should then have a set time to decide if it's a clear error by the in game ref, let's say 1 minute and if he can't decide within that time play continues.
     
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  13. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    That's why we now need PGMOL out

    Good thing is VAR gives them nowhere to hide

    Atkinson's falsifying of offside evidence against Firmino was there for all to see, and they did

    In the past they could just brush it off as a mistake made in the moment, not now
     
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  14. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    I maintain that Mané's perfectly legitimate goal vs Arsenal ruled offside cost us the league last year. You could also point to the 'goal' vs city that was cancelled out by 6mm or whatever it was as being a deciding factor. Yes it has to be the whole ball over the line and to the naked eye it was.

    I think goal line technology being used to that degree is also at fault for taking the enjoyment out of the game. They show the computer mock up but what we don't see is at what point the ball stopped moving. It could actually have crossed the line. These images can be manipulated to get the result they want. As others have said, it's the individuals using the technology that is the problem.
     
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  15. Mr Beej

    Mr Beej Well-Known Member

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    They are trying to get "perfect" decisions by using technology but they never will as the human element remains part of the decision making. They have been embarrased when a ref gets a decision wrong and it can be seen by tv but that is the game! 22 flawed human beings kicking a ball about with 3 other flawed human beings trying to keep order.
     
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  16. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm older than you saint and one thing's for sure, we're not going back to the old days. Football is becoming more and more unrecognisable as I struggle to keep up with the changes.

    I go back to the days when no substitutes were allowed except if a player was injured, can you imagine that in the modern game. I watch old games occasionally from the Hunt/St.John era or the Dalglish days and while the game was slower, heavier ball etc. it's so refreshing to see men playing men without the play acting, rolling on the ground feigning injury or calling for cards for your opponents. I genuinely don't know if I would like the game to go back to those days or not.
     
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  17. saintKlopp

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    I agree that VAR highlighted the farcical nature of that decision, and opened the whole thing to further scrutiny, but whether or not it brings about improvement is another matter.
     
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  18. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    On the plus side, now that VAR is involved we aren't resting on our laurels, we're getting our insurance goals in, as with all insurance - just in case.
     
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  19. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    so apparently are offside decisions when ruled on by VAR <laugh>
     
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  20. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    i love goal line technology as it is quick and has eliminated blatant cock ups and doesn't impede on the game in any way in fact it has resulted in lessening the hold up .
    In fact it is everything VAR isn't .
     
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