If you don't think that he's advocating her death, then you're exceptionally naive. He's virtually calling for it himself, without stepping outside of the law. Claiming that I wouldn't understand is a pathetic attempt to dodge the issue. I'm not saying that anyone should join in any religious ceremony, especially one that's from another religion, but eating turkey to celebrate the birth of one of Islam's prophets shouldn't send you to hell, should it? Perhaps he doesn't know Jesus' role in Islam? Did you intentionally avoid the question about stoning adulterers and homosexuals? What about lashing those that partake in alcohol?
Did you edit this? as it wasnt in the initial bit i responded to, but i noticed it was in ciarans not the first time you have done that and to anwer the question directly, yes certain punishments are prescribed for certain crimes etc. I dont think stoning is for homosexuals though as for aldultery there are conditions prescribed. but not sure thats a debate for here
I'm not spinning anything. You're simply choosing to ignore what he's implying. Absolute rubbish. Disagreeing with a claim isn't knowing nothing about it. The date may well be false and you may not agree that Jesus was the son of god, but he still played an important part in your religion. Perhaps pointing that out would be a more intelligent way to go, rather than threatening hell for those that disagree? Why is it obvious that he does? You appear to disagree on various points of your faith, so why is anything about what he knows obvious? You actually quoted it in your first response and my edit in the other post was not a dishonest one, as you're attempting to suggest. You're dodging all of the questions again, though. Simple questions. Do you believe that those that commit adultery should be stoned to death? Do you believe that homosexuals should be stoned to death? Do you believe that those that partake in alcohol should be lashed?
which bit we talking about? I have heard his christmas 'rant' after someone asked him the question on a Q/A session at one of his lectures. and tbh it was more the pope delivering his hristmas message than a foaming at the mouth looney. I guess its all about faith at the end of the day, yes respect others but dont lie if asked. I tell my kids to respect other peoples beliefs but i wouldnt buy them easter eggs etc for easter as it fundamentally goes against my beliefs, as anjem said The very concept of Christmas (add easter here) contradicts and conflicts with the foundation of Islam.
That's fine, no problem with people holding their beliefs. It is him calling it evil and what not. It implys that anyone who takes part in Christmas is evil. Young Muslims will see this and believe they are somehow superior than their Christian neighbours. Talk like that breeds suspicion and division. I am not religious at all so maybe that is why I can't understand his rant.
as i say, its more media than anything else. notice the part quote initially, and i wonder if he used the word evil? The main point he makes, whilst addressing muslims by the way, is that it contradicts their belief, which it does the superiority thing is a bit more complex imo. as a muslim I would argue that muslims celebrating christmas etc are doing so out of an inferiority complex, to fit in, be seen as 'normal'. I think this can be done without conforming but celebrating difference without giving up your beliefs for example I always give food/pressies at eid to my non muslim friends/neighbours never on christmas. they do the opposite and its all good edit: it doesnt refer to 'anyone' just muslims.
He can't say that she deserves to die implicitly or he'd end up in jail with your other mutual friends. If you can't read between the lines here, then I'd suggest that you go to SpecSavers. You just think that anyone that disagrees with Islam doesn't know it, which is a dishonest and cowardly approach, frankly. It's not ignorance of Islam at all. More rubbish. You're simply choosing to ignore what I've written and seeing what you want to see, as usual. Read what I actually write and not what you want me to write. Was Jesus not born, then? That would put a rather big whole in the Quran, wouldn't it? You don't have to have any knowledge of anything to talk publicly. You could just spout utter bullshit. Doing it publicly doesn't make it any more true. He's not actually a qualified Islamic scholar, as far as I know. He has no official qualifications from anywhere relating to Islam. Feel free to correct me in this, if I'm wrong. No you didn't, you just said that certain punishments were prescribed for certain crimes and that you didn't think that stoning was the punishment for homosexuals. So death for adulterers, lashing for those that partake in alcohol, like your friend Anjem and what would you suggest is the punishment for homosexuality, then?
How about you tell me since you are so knowledgeable? while youre at it could you tell me the conditions according to quran and sunnah, with the exact chains (only sahih not daeef etc) that lead to those punishments? thanks
also PNP could you explain why it says 'muslim lawyer'? your research didnt show him as a lawyer did it? or do you think its media hype? i didnt edit as you may have missed it
Yeah, I'm the bigot! What have I said that's in the least bit bigoted? "She will only have herself to blame for the repercussions on her." More bull. Your standard reply when I don't agree is that I, and presumably everyone else that shares my opinion, don't understand. It's clearly untrue. Again with the baseless bigotry claim! What is bigoted about what I've said? You're claiming that celebrating the birth of Jesus is against the teachings of the Quran. Isn't it just the part about Jesus being the son of god that's against the Quran's teachings? His style has been frequently captured on film, so I doubt that it's been exaggerated at all, if that's anything to go by. I have no interest in meeting Mr Choudary, just as I have no interest in meeting the leaders of the BNP, EDL or other similar hatemongers. The man has made his feelings about non-Muslims very clear. Dodging the question isn't a satisfactory answer. It's a fairly simple question that you just want to avoid. More question dodging? There is no consensus amongst practitioners of Sharia as to what the punishment should be, which is why I asked your opinion, which you seem unable or unwilling to give.
I read through that article and I don't see how you can back this guy up TFWNN. He is clearly a bigot. Most of the Muslims I know get their kids presents at christmas, its part of integration (a critical part of making a multicultural society work). They are still taught muslim beliefs but the parents do this so that the kids don't feel seperate or different from many of their friends at school. Where's the harm in that? If a christian scholor came out and condemned christian kids taking part in Eid celebrations (for example if their friend was muslim and they were invited to join a meal) they would be branded racist and quite rightly so. Its intolerence and divisiveness like this which is half the problem under this issue.
yes there is. i have said to you previously that the formula for islam is quran, sunnah, sahabah. this is prescribed in the quran. the only question i have been unable to give you an answer for is the homosexuality one. and i have answered that to the best of my ability/knowledge. If you are asking for my suggestions on the matter i dont have any i was hoping you could provide it based on the criteria set
tbh when it comes to PNP its not about anjem, however you may not agree with a persons viewpoint but if they are right then they are right If the muslims you know get their kids xmas presents then they are bad muslims, simple. Reason being that the whole christmas thing conflicts with islam There is a difference between say me wishing you well etc on xmas if you are christian and you doing the same at eid. or as i said i would give you pressies and food etc on eid and would accept certain things from you as a gifts etc. I say certain because if it was alcohol then i would have to say no as that goes against islam Now my kids are taught this, their mates give them xmas cards, they dont, they give mates eid goodies their mates dont, no problem. what we dont do is have the whole xmas tree/turkey etc Also those who do its up to them, but it doesnt make it right from an islamic perspective and for someon to give that information is not wrong. Also I was going to post th elink to what the article points to but it seems its been removed. It was one of those channel 4 3 minute things. It was an explanation not a rant or whatever is being made out I dont think not drinking makes me intolerant or divisive, its making stuff about a people on an internet forum with little or no knowledge that does that. The thread was about terrorists getting arrested and will they be released without charge as per the last few arrests. not about anjem
And that doesn't describe me at all. It's quite an accurate description of Mr Choudary though, wouldn't you say? More rubbish. You're the one making the claim here, which you haven't shown to be true. More allegations without basis. You've shown far more intolerance than I have. Anyone that disagrees with you isn't an Islamaphobe. An utterly cowardly accusation to avoid open discussion, something which your mate Mr Choudary seems very familiar with. No, I'm clearly not. Which Surah did you give me? Jesus' actual birthday is unknown. The year isn't even known. The man's views are openly espoused, as are those of the BNP/EDL, etc. I don't need to hear them in person to know that I don't agree with them. As I've asked you before, why do you think that I'd be scared of him? He has no history of violent actions. What source? I asked you your personal opinion on something. You are the source. I'm not lying, as you haven't answered one of the questions. You've only now admitted that you don't know the answer, having previously suggested that stoning wasn't the punishment, but not saying what it actually was. That's what I've said. There is no agreed punishment for homosexuality, as you've already given answers for the other two. As the various Islamic states haven't come to a consensus, don't you think it's a bit much to expect me to give a concise answer?
