Introduction; First off some will ask why on earth i am not using the thread already posted about match reaction. The answer is simple. That thread is already talking about things other than match reaction AND I would say a sizable proportion of users don't log on on a weekend so their views i think could do with an airing. But the main reason I've created a new one is to just air my own views fully. If you don't agree fine with my views fair enough but don't get into it with me on posting them. Tactics Simply put kenny got it badly wrong. There i said it. some people can't see the difference between admitting it was wrong and bashing the manager (by which you could read calling for the sack) Guess what you can disagree with a guy and still support him! It seems Kenny thinks that suarez cannot play in a 4-2-3-1 behind caroll. He went with a quasi 4-4-2 and it was a disasterous start to the game. Performances Charlie adam should be ahsamed of himself. He let his new team mates down, hie new fans down and his new manager down. And I'm not even talking about two yellow cards!!!! god no I'm talking about the total lack of positioing sense, effort and the amount of ball watching he did as tottenham passed it round him until he did get his marching orders. I was simply aghast as seeing him trott round, failing to follow runners, wander out of position, generally leave gaps and be totally weak. Very dissappointing. The grand henderson in midfield expereiment flopped as expected, sunderland fans have told us enough that out right he's ok but in the middle..... well we stuck him in there and he was not good at all. andy carroll... dear oh dear. The guy is goignt o be rightly savaged today, I don't agree with it most of the time as it's ott but he was very shabby when we had 11 men so he's got to take it on the chin and radically improve. skertl. Totally inept. His positioning at right back was awful and he was all at sea, the sending off was so thick. was a fool. riena. I think he threw in a couple out of frustration. thats all i can think of cos defoes show was savable if he'd been in the right place, adebayor goal was a flog, really poor and I've seen him save that type of shot the last goal was as well... sorry but even his "passing" was off. Finally a special mention for the ref. He got some things wrong and some things right, we got more wrong than him. HIs first yellow was a pure joke. adam tangled with modric but he was so quick with the card... then he gave coates a yellow for a fair challenge and was looking over to his assistant to send him off... then he botteled it i nthe end and started letting a lot of things go. He was not the achetect of our down fall but spurs can be thankful to him in places. Organisation So mr agger got injured... well that was hardly suprising but was really really vexes me is when you've 20mins of a guy clutching a rib and STILL STILL your back up in coates has not got ready. thats annoying in the extreme. Spurs I think we actually got lucky. we were badly organised and were rightly handed our head for about 5-10mins but when we got into it spurs did a lot of passing off the ball in front of us and thier fans loved it.... it wasn't until with 9men and a stupid lack of shape at the back that their second goal came! I stated to my mate on about 60mins, we're lucky we are not playing utd. why? cos while spurs thought they were hammering us by passing it round utd would have gone for us and kept going for us and scored 10. we flogged the defoe goal by being disorganised.. reina spilled a shot i'd throw my hat on.... Credit to spurs for thier start but if they want to kick on thye've got to go for the jugular, if thet suarez goal had not been rightly disallowed one has to wonder agasint 10 mena what would they have done?
I still think that if we had kept 11 men on the pitch we could have turned the game around and everyone would be praising the team. Who knows it didn't happen that way There's nothing wrong with the negative comments being posted and some of them are valid, I just think people are understandably down and need to take a deep breath and move on to the next game. Earlier performances were getting great reviews by fans and pundits, nothing has really changed and we will have a good season I'm sure of that.
I pretty much agree with all of that. Kenny got it wrong big time and although I am still 100% behind him we surely can't deny he royally ****ed up. The players were terrible, every single one of them. Suarez deserves a mention, mainly for his bad attitude. In my eyes he could of easily been sent off for constantly having a pop at the ref and basically acting like a baby. Also his pathetic dive on the edge of the box is worth mentioning. I personally think the ref got most things right. At the end of the day, we were getting battered when it was 11 vs 11. So before anyone can even suggest the ref had a part to play we need to look at our part in it all. We seriously need to sort it out for the Wolves game. One bonus is Gerrard can come in for Adam. Who although is (sometimes) a great passer of the ball, is probably the worst tackler in the EPL.
I'm not too sure about that Luv - we were getting battered and they were looking like killing us off 11 vs 11. The only thing that changed when we went to 9 men is our 2 worst players left the pitch. The game pretty much stayed the same, total Spurs domination.
In games like that, you have to set the tempo from the off, Spurs did, we didn't, Spurs won and we didn't. It doesn't matter about having pace in wide areas, thats useless if the central midfield don't boss the game and let themselves be bossed. Its as simple as that, its the reason why we lost yesterday, and its the reason why Man United lost the champions league final.
I forgot to make note od downing... he was anonymous all day, really poor. the midifled was set up wrong for the off... that is true. adam left, downing right and henderson and lucas in the middle. that was crazy IMO. downing did nothing, adam managed to get sent off stupidly and henderson was very poor. In short it was the wrong way to approcach the game but by about 10 mins in we'd gotten a handle on it by shoving henderson wide and unfortunatley adam was stupid and slow and a ball watcher... he let everyone down badly. all in all i think if kenny does anything he locks the lot in a room at melwood and absolutely tears into them for 2 hours. they need to have FEAR that if the ever think they can just trun up anywhere he'll ream them a new one. they have to fear him more than the consequences of a bad game
We were never gonna keep a clean sheet with out backline new and all over the place as it is, usre with Skrtel where he was and agger hardly ever playing, carra ancient and coates new. Losing is one thing, conceding 4 is quite another. We have been turned into a Fulham or Sunderland, can play great for short spells followed by spells of mediocre unimaginative football which is what we saw today. Regardless of setup positioning and formation, we could NOT keep posession and did NOT work hard enough to keep the ball. Spurs worked hard ot keep the ball and provided plenty of movement, our mid was frozen stiff, boy did we miss meireles' engine against spuds.
I agree we should be using the formation 4-2-3-1. Charlie Adam is a tough one, he's so inconsistent but I think he showed today why he isn't suited to playing in big matches. He's great against sides with weaker defences, but he just can't pick a good pass when there's a good defence in front of him. Spearing and Lucas would have been a better partnership against Spurs; Spearing is seriously under utilised this season, last season he was magnificent and played a massive part in us winning so many games. He's a hard worker and really sets the pace of the team in midfield. Personally I would have played... -------------------Reina----------------------- ---Carra-----Coates----Agger-----Enrique------- --------------Lucas---Spearing----------------- ----Gerrard--------Suarez---------Downing------ -------------------Kuyt------------------------- Of course with Gerrard out, the position is open for Henderson (or even Sterling ). Carra is at RB because I feel his experience would have really helped defeat Bale's runs; and he wouldn't have to rely on pace as Bale is rather predictable when running down the wing. Kuyt is up front instead of Carroll mainly because of the Suarez-Kuyt partnership. Kuyt is our poacher, and with Suarez behind him I would have fancied him to get a few goals against Spurs. A new striker that has pace is a must in January/Summer; it's a cliche but we are really lacking in pace up front, Downing has pace but that's about it and how can we expect to have a quick build up and pass and move if none of the players are fast enough to get it up. Watching Torres the other day, he would have fit into our current team so well even if he can't finish - he knew when to run, he knew where to stand. Carroll stands offside, then gets back and then isn't fast enough to chase the through ball - he's just not suited to our style of play. Lucas is the ball winner obviously, the makelele. It may seem to be going back to the days of Rafa with 2 holding mids, but Lucas' passing has really come on, and Spearing can put in short passes - but mainly the Spucas partnership would never have let us get on the backfoot. Spearing will always look to run back, get hold of the ball and start a new attack. He won't give up - he was what was needed and what he lacks in raw skill he makes up in sheer hard work. Coates is in there because I think he did well yesterday, and his height would have tricked Spurs' into resorting to one dimensional attack methods which can be exploited. Gerrard on the wing is obvious, he wants game time - the RW is our weakest point. He wouldn't complain with starting there I feel, he's getting on a bit so he can't really afford to be as picky as he was. I really think Adam shouldn't play in big games, he is useful with his set pieces and sometimes he can pull off a really good long pass - but when you're trying to pull off a pass-move style, you don't want someone who will give possession away every 5 passes! He's looking for the quick goal all the times, but the rest of the team like to build up, he needs to adapt more and watch videos of Alonso.
We had nothing going forward at all, i'm still recovering That hurt as we were very poor, granted they got 3 when we were down to 9 but they were battering us 11v11 I tell you what, we'll have to be careful Wed night, Brighton are pretty good you know
I agree with these points to be honest i always worried about Adam in these sort of games he's decent against teams who park the bus and come to defend as he can play a good pass but against the better teams he's not mobile enough to press properly. Both he and Henderson couldn't really get near spurs midfield and the gap in quality between them and Modric in particular was evident and this left Lucas being constantly pulled out of position as he went to try and close down and fill in for the two of them. I hate to say it but today we really could have done with Merieles and even Aquilani yesterday i though it was a mistake to let them both go as their technical ability is valuable in games like this that can't be won just by hard work alone. As for Carroll he's not looking good at the minute i don't know what's wrong with him, i never expected him to be brilliant but when i watched him for Newcastle he was at least a threat he seemed like a nightmare for defenders, but at the moment he really offers very little i don't know if its that he's not comfortable with the way we play or if defenders are now a bit more used to him and know how to play against him better.
no way would i expose carra to both ekotto and bale on spurs left. especially with gerrard there too! downing gave no help really at all on the right to skertl. I'd have just played flanagan! it seems to me the formation spoke to kenny not thinking about suarez as a second striker either so i don't see him being the middle of a thrre man line with gerrard and downing either. for me i think i would have gone with -------------------Reina----------------------- ---flanagan---Carra----Agger-----Enrique------- --------------Lucas---Adam----------------- ----Kuyt--------Henderson---------Downing------ -------------------suarez------------------------- (i'm eliminating hindsight) When i saw how bloddy awful adam was i'd have thought about taking him off but in reality i think you don't haul a guy off until half time. right after he got sent off I'd actually sacrifice henderson for spearing and get kuyt tucked in and hope downing kuyt and suarez could get me something. In reality though i was thinking before this game it'd be one for carroll so I might have gone 4-3-3 as well and that'd put adam out left side elightly as well.... all in all it was lousy bad lazt looking legs that did for us
You know me always the optamist. I agree with some of the negative points and that the management got it wrong with Skrtel. I just think that in some games you can have a bad start but weather the storm and change the game, the sending off meant that it was immpossible to do this. We'll never know, I'm as gutted as everyone but don't think it's the end of the world. This season will be a good one That game has not changed my opinion on that. The Brighton and Wolves games can't come soon enough.
So you think a hasty Flanagan would have been better at RB than Carragher? You do know who was refereeing don't you. Flanagan would have been red carded after 5 minutes. Atleast Carra has that bit of experience to know when to slide in for the tackle, and how to hold an opponent off. Gerrard is actually rather good at supporting the fullbacks, it's tracking back on his own he's not too good at. He can support anyone in the team, but when asked to defend on his own he struggles. I would NOT put Suarez on his own against King, and Henderson as AM? You'd play him in a position he's never played before in a match like this?
I think that most of the posters here have got it spot on. We got it dreadfully wrong all over the pitch, with our attitude and performances. And at managmement level for putting out a team with so many weaknesses... I just thought that after he initial 15 mins we just started to hold back the constant pressure from Spurs, and try to get some sort of a hold in the game. But it never came and we didnt look like gaining anything out of it after the red card. What worries me is that KD seems to be playing his favourites and i cant see why Kuyt didnt at least start. Adams is to slow, he got caught out big time in this game... Henderson has still to find his own game let alone be a constant starter for us... Lucas was left so exposed by the lack of discipline by these two not getting back to halt the constant pressure Spurs put us under. Im not going to have a go at them all as no one should be excempt from what we saw on sunday, but lets be honest Brighton should be getting a hiding on wed. And Wolves should be thinking that the last place we want to play this coming weekend is Liverpool after 2 straight defeats....!!! And i thought we had turned the corner after the Stoke game... We can only get better... We have to...
basically carrgher was lucky v utd not to see red for that foul v nani... this would be in my mind... The point is a) skertl proved he can hold the right position. b) flanagan is 18... "hasty" is an interesting term... I would have given him a go over a player i know has clogged lads in the past, has no pace and will be upagainst 2 guys with pace. the gerrard thing is merely, he's out 7 months and i'd not have asked him to go a job on the wing in those circumstances.... even if fit i'm not sure i'd do that as i' not sure he would
oh and henderons... I'm putting him in cos there's not much option. I wrote kuyt wide right so that he could help flanagan in that role as he's done for years. Henderson is there cos i'd already thought that kenny would not play carroll and squarez due to the facts he's benched one or other all year. I would have thought he'd plug the gaps somehow... though perhaps maybe maxi might have come in... all in all i would not have thought at all to debut coates or push carra right side.
SSH! At work so shouldn't be posting...! Like I said yesterday Kenny Dalglish is human, he goes to the toilet like everyone else. Even legends sit on the bog. He's King Kenny - not King Midas where everything he touches turns to gold! Yesterday's match proved that. It was a mess from the top down. He has to take some responsibility for it. And for those who unfollow me on Twitter 'cos they don't like hearing the truth and say I'm not a fan can just apply to Britain's Got Talent and do ostrich impressions. Last week we lost 1-0 to Stoke. Wasn't impressed but at least we went down fighting. Yesterday we seemed not to fight at all.
Some people are just being pathetic and won't hear a bad word said against KK, those people need to wake up and admit he got it badly wrong yesterday - it's how he deals with that embarrassment from yesterday that will count and I have every faith he will rectify this.
I wouldn't say... badly wrong... but i did say it was wrong. kenny pulled henderson out of the middle and put adam back in there after 5 mins cos henderson was blown away. my issue is the kid should not be in there in the first place... an i only go on what i've seeni ngames and what sunderland fans told me.. not exactly what kenny sees in training. adam lets us and kenny down though... downing was really listless and out of it i was disappointed there. carroll was dross. So 3-4 bad performances compouns the tatcis issue. kenny made changes to those tactics at 0-1 down, i just must wonder if the listlessness was also down to how we prepared or did the players let him down. I for one don't want to see yet another bunch of "new" players do the same old excuses, stand up and be counted rubbish when the pressure comes on. they have been rubbish since the international break and thats not right. consistency must be acheived.
I don't think we were rubbish against Stoke, we actually played quite well but it turned into one of those ones where you deserve to score but just know your not going to. We need to win our next 2 games cos Everton away will be a very daunting fixture if we don't.
