Leeds v Manchester United, League Cup 3rd Round

you know my DNA is Leeds - my hair is red but it's correcting itself, I'm balding.

 

Well he has bought and sold (and put into administration) so many football clubs it's probably easy to forget! Oh, and controlling shareholder does not equal owner. All that means is that the shareholders' agreement allows Bates to control the club - it doesn't mean he owns most of the shares.

1. Cos the FTSE trades at a price / earnings ratio of 8.55 whilst the SGX trades at a PE ratio of 29.5. In layman's terms, investors in Singapore have more money to invest than those in Britain, and so companies trading on the SGX are valued higher. The Glazers will get more money for a listing in Singapore.

2. It's a holding company. Like Fenway Sports Group (Liverpool), Fordstam (Chelsea) or "FSF Limited based in the West Indian island of Nevis" which owns Leeds.

3. "The latest figures show that net debt has fallen to £308.3m, down from £376.9m a year earlier"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14741758

4. So that they remain the controlling shareholders of course. Why would they want to lose control of the club when they are only selling 25-30%? It's much like Bates being the controlling shareholder for Leeds, when the club has loads of other shareholders.

5. £23 million.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ester-United-owners-take-23m-out-of-club.html
It may sound like a lot, but our shareholders were paid £33 million for the five years before the Glazer takeover, so the Glazers have taken less out of the club in their first five years than the shareholders took out the five years before, despite more than doubling our revenue.

 

Just for the record, we are all already aware of how much of a crook Ken Bates is and we agree with anyone taking the piss out of our ownership structure.

 

Fair dos Just seemed a bit funny that a few of your fans were trying to claim the Glazers were as bad as Bates. I think he achieves a level of opacity and financial engineering that the Glazers can only aspire to. Putting the club into administration and then buying it back himself is low by anyone's standards...

 

Swarbs you sound quite clued up , so can you check if "net debt has fallen to £308.3m" Does this include the 500m bonds due for repayment in 2017.

You better hope this next crop of youngster is worth 500m and just wait til the agents start holding you to ransom...

 

Yes it does. We issued £526 million of bonds in January 2010, but have paid off around £35 million a year over the last two years. From the last annual reports we have £458.9 million of bonds outstanding. We also have £155.6 million of cash in the bank, hence the net debt on the club is £308.3 million. That's one of the best things the Glazers have done for us - they've set the club up to produce around £50 million of cash each year after the interest is paid so our net financial position is pretty secure.

Like I said above, we're making £50 million in cash profit every year so we won't need to sell players to pay the debt off, particularly if this Singapore listing goes ahead. Wage inflation is always going to be a problem, but we're in a better position to deal with it than most PL clubs - only Arsenal make similar profits to us. And the fact that we don't rely on individual superstars helps keep our wage levels down as well - Young, Cleverley and Welbeck could do as well as Silva, Toure, Mata, Torres, Tevez and Aguero this year whilst earning less than half their wages.

 

you guys just better hope that you continue to win things then. If mancity and chelsea overtake you then those profits will not keep coming in. Although i doubt the shirt sales in the asian market will ever go down regardless

 

We will see in 2017..

No where in the accounts can I see it state that the outstanding debt includes the bonds.
Perhaps they are not counted as not due for repayment until 2017.
Remember you had to pay the remaining PIK loans and don't forget that the Glaziers were entitled to take £125 million last year as agreed in the terms of the Bonds.

Maybe, just maybe thats the case.

Regardless I would not worry, if the club went bust the brand would survive. Its a British global brand like Marathon Bars and Jif....

PS If all else fails maybe Man City can give you a loan????

 

Marko, nothing wrong with a ginger Leeds man. Look at Billy Bremner, just as long as you don't have a Mick Hucknall perm.

Never did understand why a die hard Scum fan like Hucknall tried so hard to look like a Scouser?

 

Does anyone really believe we wont continue to compete and win things for the next 5 years or more? I mean have you seen our team? It may as well be pre school because they are so young and will almost certainly get better and better in the coming seasons.

Our financial position is very strong even with the debt. The chances of us going bust are slim as we are set up to make tonnes of money off the pitch and win silverware on it.

As for the bonds I understand we are buying them back slowly so that come 2017 the total sum to repay is significantly lower, if we continue to bank money and to buy wisely we will have no problem paying them back. This of course doesnt include the possibility that the coming sale of part of the club doesnt wipe out the debt right away.

 

Bored of money talk, we are both owned by doggy set ups etc...

What team will you be putting out, i have heard you have some decent kids coming through?

 

Referring to Rooney I guess?

 

You state many times Leeds mean nothing to you!

Why is it everytime I watch you lot play the times when you actually sing (which isn't much) its always

"We all hate Leeds Scum"? even at the champions league final it was heard!

Come on give me your excuses for that? Leeds stop singing about you years ago so why cant you do the same? or is it the fact you dont have anything else to sing?

 

I'd imagine a few of our reserves will get a game, like Berbatov, Carrick, Park, Fletcher, Owen. I Think Macheda and Diouf will also get some game time.

We have a couple really promising players coming through the youth setup in Paul Pogba, Ravel Morrison, and Ryan Tunnicliffe (sp?). Tunnicliffe is out on loan to Petersborough I believe. I don't think Morrison will get any game time, but I hope Pogba does. When he was first brought in they we calling him the new Patrick Viera, I've only seen him on Youtube so I can't really comment on that, but he's hit some screamers.

 

Do not misread what we are saying. We are all fully aware that you're likely to go on dominating English football for the foreseeable (and, unfortunately, unforseeable) future. That does not mean we can't live in hope. It's gotten out of control and as such the Premier League is beyond repair.

 

On pitch success isn't all that important to revenue tbh. We were still filling the stadium in 2004 and 2005 when we were finishing 3rd, and our sponsorship revenue doesn't depend on trophies won. If we finished 3rd behind City and Chelsea, all that would happen is we'd make a couple of million less prize money and a bit less media money from the CL. We'd have to fall out of the top four to stop making profits.

Remind me never to let you do my accounts! Legally, any debt held by the company, bonds or otherwise, must be included in the financial statements no matter when they're due for repayment. Failure to do that counts as fraud and would land the directors in jail. Likewise, if the Glazers had used Utd money to pay the PIKs, or taken £125 million out of the club, this would have to be shown in the annual report. Otherwise they'd end up in jail faster than you can say "19 league titles".

Lindegaard will 99% start in goal. Ferdinand and Fabio may start after their injuries, maybe Welbeck and Vidic will get some time if they're coming back to fitness. Fletcher is likely to play to help his return to full fitness. Pogba, Morrison and Macheda should also start, or at least play some part, and some of Fornasier, Vermijl and Massacci may play if SAF wants to avoid any more injuries to first team defenders. Our team should be around 50% senior squad players who need game time and 50% youngsters and fringe players getting first team experience.

 

well that's a bare faced lie, we sing about jan 3rd and we sing manchester **** **** **** every week. I said earlier in this thread that I'm not going to deny that I care about them (I hate them almost as much as I love leeds). I just think it's rich that they are continually denying caring about us at all when it's blatantly obvious they do. They'd love nothing more than for us to be back in the Premier League, a truly aggressive fixture for them amongst all the libraries and plastics.

 

I thought Welbeck was still out for a few more weeks? And is Morrison that kid who was arrested for intimidating a witness? I'd like to see the Leeds crowd and players test his temperment

 

I completely forgot about Ferdinand! Bring him on, the abuse should be fun!

 

He was expected to be out for longer, but he's made a good recovery and is back in training. Half an hour or so in a CC game would probably be a good way to ease him back in to the first team, tho' Leeds will probably have other ideas

And yes, Morrison is the one with, ahem, disciplinary and temperament issues. Will be interesting to see if SAF thinks he's ready to handle the Elland Road experience.