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Jamo and Managers in Trouble.....

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by wizered, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. wizered

    wizered Ol' Mucker
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    Been there done and got the tee shirt...

    'The only manager I’ve played for who turned the dressing room around was Avram Grant, says David James.

    With nine dismissals in 11 days, managers are dropping like flies. My old clubs Aston Villa and West Ham United are still under particular scrutiny and everyone is searching for an explanation.

    In part we can blame society's obsession with instant gratification, but that is not the whole story. While the rest of us are left scratching our heads, you can bet that the players themselves are not surprised by the announcements.

    Personally I can't think of many managers I've played under who were sacked and didn't deserve it. I've had several where the feeling in the dressing room was: "How on earth are you still here?" As a group of players, once you've lost confidence in the manager you want him to leave.

    In my experience there are two major factors that determine how long a manager lasts. One, undeniably, is results. But another is likability. Either or both of these can help a manager through rough times – they act as insurance policies to fall back on and buy more time when things start going wrong.

    Managers, like young players, tend to be measured by early success. Look at Arsène Wenger – hugely successful when he first took over at Arsenal, but hasn't won a trophy in five years. Of course he's up there in the league every year, but to some extent he is still living off his early achievements. The rule to surviving seems to be: get a trophy in, fast. Perhaps that is why Chris Hughton's dismissal caused the biggest outcry of all – he followed the template by winning the Championship, and still he was sacked.

    Good results and likability do not necessarily go together, though. A prime example is Gérard Houllier. I have a lot of time for him because he taught me a valuable lesson about player respect at Liverpool. But he was not a popular manager, despite his trophies. I remember being at Aston Villa and speaking to some of my old Liverpool team-mates who were complaining about him. I said: "But you're third in the league, what's there to moan about?" They just didn't like the way he did things.

    Did it matter? No, because in the early days he brought success. And that's what players desire more than anything else. You can forgive a manager anything if he helps you to win. Once the winning stops there comes a period of grace – living off the memories of having won – but if the players don't like you the mood quickly turns sour.

    Losing the confidence of the dressing room is not as rare as it seems. We only tend to hear about it when there are heavy defeats, but I've played for managers whom the team has disliked and we've been floating along mid-table. Mediocrity is itself a reason to dislike a manager. Players are ambitious and want to win, not settle for safety.

    Once the talk starts that a manager is going to get the sack, it's pretty much a done deal. The dressing room is already thinking about who will be next in charge. The more the manager protests on TV that he has the confidence of his players, the more the players are pulling their hair out behind the scenes.

    As the pressure builds, the unrest gains momentum and is difficult for a manager to contain. It is at this point that they often start to make crazy decisions. One manager I had brought in a rule that English was the only language allowed in the dressing room. That alienated the foreign players who then refused to speak English and suddenly there was a rift. Another manager who rounded us all up after a heavy thrashing told us: "When you go home your kids are going to look at you and say: 'Daddy was a mummy today.'" It was the strangest thing we'd ever heard, and it only reinforced our suspicion that he had completely lost it.

    Other common mistakes by managers are not being honest, a surefire way of losing your players' trust, or playing teacher and punishing individuals by forcing them to train with the youth players. Never a good idea. It's not that a manager has to please his players all the time, but he has to be honest and show basic respect.

    As England manager, Sven-Goran Eriksson dropped me three times yet I still have a very high opinion of him. He took the time to explain his decisions, and gave me advance notice. Everyone hates a manager who drops players without any warning or explanation.

    People often ask if players try to get rid of a manager on purpose. Some do, particularly those who are out of favour or on the fringes of the team. They are hoping someone new will come in and rejuvenate their career. To most of us, though, winning is the most important thing, no matter your feelings about the manager. Where that principle comes into conflict is when you are given a set of orders to follow and you know that they are completely inept. Do you disobey your chain of command, or follow orders that lead to disaster?

    The only manager I've ever played for who turned the dressing room around was Avram Grant. When he first came to Portsmouth we kept losing. The club seemed to be going down the pan, we hadn't been paid, and morale was low. But a good run in the FA Cup kept us buoyant. It was something to focus on, a light at the end of a tunnel – although, sadly, it turned out to be a train. But that FA Cup final glossed over all of our other problems and we were happy under him. He kept us together and guided us towards this light. At the time it was awesome and we believed in him.

    The divide between players and managers is not easy to bridge. But all these sackings haven't put me off. As crazy as it sounds, after what happened last week, I still want to be a manager.'

    There's your magic finish," I still want to be a manager".....Hhmmm..


    Gaurdian article....David James has donated his fee for this column to charity
     
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  2. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    He's about as qualified to do the job as that Tosser Millen is and let's face it he couldn't do a lot worse.
     
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  3. Premiershiporbust....

    Premiershiporbust.... Active Member

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    The relevant parts of this article...


    Did it matter? No, because in the early days he brought success. And that's what players desire more than anything else. You can forgive a manager anything if he helps you to win.

    Mediocrity is itself a reason to dislike a manager. Players are ambitious and want to win, not settle for safety.

    It's not that a manager has to please his players all the time, but he has to be honest and show basic respect.

    To most of us, though, winning is the most important thing, no matter your feelings about the manager. Where that principle comes into conflict is when you are given a set of orders to follow and you know that they are completely inept. Do you disobey your chain of command, or follow orders that lead to disaster?



    Hmmm, a pretty thinly veiled article...

    Backs up what I have been saying on here for ages now - you need a LEADER, someone who you respect and who you think will take you places. As for the respect thing, I mentioned before that I would have stuck one on our manager for the PERSONAL abuse that he was dishing out at half time

    Sadly, not really the case with our Keith is it...
     
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  4. pirate49

    pirate49 Well-Known Member
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    James is an intelligent and articulate man. He would have focused upon that angle quite deliberately.
    With money an issue would you bet against a James/Walsh appointment until the end of the season?
     
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  5. RedorDead

    RedorDead Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a strange time to talk about managers, when we all know Keef is not up to it!
     
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  6. banksyisourhero

    banksyisourhero Well-Known Member

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    I would be happy to give it a go!
     
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  7. 3rd eye

    3rd eye Well-Known Member

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    That article was in the Guardian last season - when Avram Grant was coming under a lot of pressure. He also did an interview around that time supporting AG as a manager. Jamo also mentioned in another article that the team turned around last season after KM gave them all an old fashioned b*ll*cking. <ok>
     
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  8. wizered

    wizered Ol' Mucker
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    So the **** what,he wrote it,we read it,the meaning is the same,the mans points are very relevant to us not you...

    .....but thanks for your concern......
     
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  9. 3rd eye

    3rd eye Well-Known Member

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    OK - chill - I wasn't intending to offend you. And actually the man's points are very relevant to what is going on at our club too, we are in almost exactly the same situation as you.
     
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  10. wizered

    wizered Ol' Mucker
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    Cheers mate,we are all a bit touchy here at the moment,honestly,no offence meant,good luck to you and a good club.....
     
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  11. 3rd eye

    3rd eye Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - I've got a really soft spot for Bristol City club and always look out for your results and what's going on there. You do deserve better, as do we. I just wonder who will be out first, your manager or ours.
     
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  12. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    Wiz....your total crusade shrouded in the red mist know's no bounds....

    "That article was in the Guardian last season - when Avram Grant was coming under a lot of pressure. He also did an interview around that time supporting AG as a manager. Jamo also mentioned in another article that the team turned around last season after KM gave them all an old fashioned b*ll*cking."

    THANKS 3RD EYE for pointing it out, :grin: :emoticon-0100-smile could almost have thought the dressing room was in turmoil and we HAVE NO TRUTH IN THAT....have we

    When irrational thoughts run out lets dig up something from the past....I was almost looking to get a copy of the guardian to see it for myself.

    WE all appreciate how much you want to proved right WIZ, :mad: <steam> <steam>:headbang: :headbang: but try and keep your opinions and arguments in the present, and the present is SEPTEMBER 2011:wink:
     
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  13. ibodyslamrhinos

    ibodyslamrhinos Active Member

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    It's the same as what I have said in a previous threat I wrote. The players have lost respect in Keith, and you can see they no longer want to play under him, it was the same with GJ, you could tell there was an atmosphere going on behind the scenes and it was all brought to fruition in Lee Trundles book. You also only have to look at the situation with Bradley Orr, Basso, Ivan Sproule... Not much is dis-similar from our current predicament, the players don't look hungry to win under this manager.

    I would happily let Jamo take over as caretaker, certainly couldn't be any worse and he has worked under WORLD CLASS managers, and maybe just maybe something has rubbed off onto our very intelligent and articulate goalkeeper.
     
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  14. johngalleyfan2

    johngalleyfan2 Well-Known Member

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    It's ok to write threats!!! but what should they look like....an :angry: Wiz !!

    as for DJ time will tell maybe 2013
     
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  15. wizered

    wizered Ol' Mucker
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    John,it's nice to read your articles and comments.

    I am a Bristol City Supporter and not a Millen fan,he is a very nice chap,he works very hard at what he does but after over 12 months in charge this club has stood still and as you know,if you stand still you are going backwards.

    In his early management of course he had initial successes,he was living off of the back of GJ's ending and the Coppout crash landing,a mixture of sympathy,relief and a genuine wish for him to succeed came from all of us for the clubs sake,not only his,but to his credit and the fact there were worse clubs around we survived but the club has not improved.

    He is the master of playing the wounded soldier,spin and a lot of people are now seeing through it.
    We are at our lowest ebb at all levels of the club,there is no leadership,no enthusiasm,just the monotenous drone of explanations of failure eminating from Millen,we are drifting and failing,even us fans are staying away in droves,even with the great offers of low prices.

    His time is up,he has got to go,get him out and a new dynamo in to ignite the club and supporters with fresh,vigorous ways to get our club,just back to a stable,confident, winning force.

    No red mist,no personal vendetta,we are failing badly and the manager has to be held responsible,it goes with the territory..
     
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