That's fine and that's your opinion, nicely put too I just disagree because parliament have done everything in its power to block and delay. Remainers out of parliament have not accepted the result either. It just doesn't sit right with me that all those who have done everything to stop democracy and the result being implemented will get a chance to remain. I completely understand your point and I am sure you understand mine I just don't agree that in order to leave the EU, leave would have to win TWO referendums and don't forget a GE where over 80% of votes were for parties who promised to implement the referendum decision. And remain only have to win just ONE referendum. Its just not right. And do you really think if the referendum ended the other way and remain won with 52% of the votes, would remain make any compromises? Of course not. Do you think the losers (leavers) would have acted the same as what remainers have done? Of course not. And we already know if there is a 2nd referendum and leave wins again, the Lib Dems have said they will still fight against it. Democracy only works with the consent from the losers. The losers have not consented and that's why I am against a referendum that includes remain. It would be rewarding that behaviour otherwise. And I can't see many voting in future elections and referendums if parliament doesn't listen to the results.
Personally I cant see how a no deal will effect the GFA. Also the USA getting involved in Brexit - just because they are friends with Ireland, threatening future trade deals if we have no deal is wrong. I honestly think they are bluffing.
I agree. Article 50 was started without a plan where to start and that is the fault of both sides. May only just got the PM job and sorted her cabinet out. So as a result, once article 50 was started, we were already playing catch up as we had no plan, while the EU never wasted time and had already set up a strong negotiation team. That's like a newly formed team facing Liverpool in their first fixture! But.... a deal was done in time. We could have left by the first deadline. But both remainers and leavers rejected that deal. Both again to blame. I bet those leavers regret that now as its increasingly likely that either a 2nd referendum could happen with remain being an option or GE and the result could mean a party wins and stops Brexit. I bet those remainers regret it too as still the default position now is leaving on a no deal next Thursday. So both sides are to blame but remainers still have done everything possible to stop Brexit.
It's nothing to do with just them being 'friends' with Ireland, they're friends with the UK too - we all know they're genuinely obliged to ensure that the GFA is honoured, which means no border checks or controls whatsoever in Ireland. Surely even as a leaver, you can see a bit of daftness in the idea of 'taking back control of our borders', when in reality no deal actually means we have zero control over them?
Because your using a different version to the one we have. Britains a representative democracy isn't it?? so the party in power gets to run the UK for five years and follow what is in their manifesto. what was in the Tories manifesto? upholding the referendum result. your democracy says we should ignore all that. its your democracy that isnt!!
And herein lies the problem of simplifying something which is extremely complex. When was the last time a party ever implemented everything in their manifesto as they said? A blind inability to adapt to any kind of conditions for five whole years would be reckless in the extreme. Brexit has made every average person think they're a political expert when in reality 90% have just picked a side and blindly stuck to it without an ounce of reading. On both sides that is.
I disagree. It has everything to do with them being friends with the Irish. Why else would they get involved? As a leaver who wants no deal, I have no worries at all about the Irish boarder. Of course there will be teething issues to begin but so will everything else. After all, I am just an average person and I think I am political expert. I've done no reading, I just picked a side and I'm sticking to it
I think I know what the outcome will be if he does. All depends if he can make his mind up I guess, same as his stance (or lack of it) on Brexit.
Not unless he is left no other choice. He knows that his MPs have upset a lot of their staunch Labour supporters over Brexit, particularly in the North. I think it will be a landslide for Boris if it’s called, and Corbyn and Swinson know it, hence they will do it unless they have no choice. The whole 31st Oct do or die statement from Boris was what they were pinning their hopes on, he asks for an extension and they would try to hammer him on that in an election; however, everyone now knows Boris did all he could and I think the public won’t fall for that line form the opposition now, so they are both stumped. An idiot as she is, at least Swinson has nailed her colours to a mast, Labour are flip-flopping on what they will do, offering a softer Brexit (whatever that mans), and/or a second referendum. Add to the fact that Corbyn is probably the most unpopular leader Labour have ever had, and that takes some doing. If Labour were smart, they would ditch Corbyn and get a credible leader in, then they would have a good chance of making a fight of an election.
It really doesn't mate, they're not any more pal-ly with them than us. Back in the day Bill Clinton sent a US senator to chair the talks between us and the Irish for the GFA. They ultimately ended up as the protectors of the agreement. It's their role and responsibility to do so, as an impartial 'mediator' almost. You can refer to teething issues as you like but the fact still remains, if we want to ban a person that the EU allows, we will have no way of keeping them out of our country in a no deal scenario. For what it's worth I absolutely wasn't referring to you (or to be fair most of the members here) with that. But the average guy down the pub who wants Brexit 'to get rid of the immigrants' and all that sort of crap, that's who I meant.
There's probably quite a few "average guys down the pub" posting on here - we're not all intellectuals........ I know what you mean about the perception that many of those who voted to leave were driven by immigation issues, but to narrow that down as the only reason would be a big mistake. Sure it could have tipped the balance in favour of leaving - that doesn't mean to say that particular motive amongst the many others is not a valid concern for some. Your point about "undesirable" immigrants in general or even specifically identified individuals having access to the UK across an open Irish land border is valid. Quite how that is dealt with is a major task, but it should not deter or deflect this country from following it's chosen route. Many would argue if given the choice again, the populace would vote to remain in the EU. Personally, after this past couple of years of dictat by the EU, I believe the outcome of an (unnecessary) second referendum would produce an even larger majority in favour of leaving with or without a deal. A waste of time and effort - the country has made a choice and it should be followed despite the problems, both real and often imagined that are thrown in it's path. The future of this country has become a political football in Parliament with Junker and Co. reffing it - time to blow the full time whistle.
No chance. He knows not only will he not win, he will also lose to tag of being the official opposition because I feel the Lib Dems will over take them.
