It wasn't usual for badges to appear on shirts until the late 60s, early 70s. Prior to that, they only usually appeared on special occasions, such as cup finals. Initially, many clubs wouldn't have bespoke kits made- shirts in the appropriate colours would be purchased from a 'sporting outfitters'. That's why, when you look at team photos from the Victorian period, there appears to be some variation in what the players are wearing- in some cases they would have been responsible for obtaining their own kit. Interestingly, during this period, players who had been selected to represent their county or country would wear the badge of that county or country on their club shirts. As for changing our current badge, I'd prefer to see the current one stay. The previous one looks very dated now and the current one at least has elements that are currently representative of the city and surrounding area.
From a branding point of view it's about creating something more simple, like what Manchester City did. How memorable an image is is subjective, however having a badge kids can replicate (draw/sketch/doodle) easily should not be overlooked, it could be another way of connecting with younger generations of supporters. The current badge, IMO, is too complicated. This is my opinion of course, and it is probably slightly swayed by the fact I have no real love nor affiliation for the current badge.
Mind if we get a new badge they can afford to change their own bloody seats in the west stand this time
My dad worked the shipyards his whole life. A lot of mates and their dads worked at the pits. The main thing about those places was the craic. It wasnt about the things that were built or mined, it was the people who worked there. Ditto the glass works and doxford engines, Coles cranes people. I'm sure nissan is creating a whole new culture for better or worse. The fact is badges depicting ships might warm the hearts of some but the shipyards were cold hard dirty places to work and for many years the shipyard owners were despots. Ditto the mines. Why romantasise these places. If the new owners want to make us successful and in the process do some rebranding so be it.
I've posted this on the take over thread but I'd like to see a nice fresh basic few strokes design like the attached, but the cat facing out and looking aggressive
I'd rather see something from the present celebrated on the badge instead of a nod to the past but I'm not sure what it would be.
Its an interesting debate. I know people who worked in the shipyards and, by and large, they were very proud of what was built. You look at Sunderland and you think "what are we famous for?". Our shipbuilding heritage is one of those things and it is rightly a source of pride. It is looking back of course, but I'd rather have something on the clubs badge that links to where it came from (I've actually always been surprised that there's no nod to teachers/ schools anywhere given how we were founded). Whether it's the ships, something regarding mining, or whether we do leave that in the past and simply have something that is still there like the Wearmouth bridge. I just feel personally that we lose something if we go to a bloody cat, or something even less linked to the city like a simple red and white shield or similar. The club represents the city, it is a source of pride no matter how **** we do, and its something passed through the generations. We might need a sharp, simple design, and I'm absolutely fine with that, but I wouldn't want it to look anything like the Hull badge with a mascot taking centre stage. I want us to be forward thinking, modern in approach but still giving that nod to what built this city and made it great, and what gave work to the first people to walk through the turnstiles to support the lads. Quite accept others will think that's sentimental bullshit but I see that as a key part of our clubs identity and it isn't something I'd want to lose.
As I understand it, the light and dark blue often used in away kits is a nod to the teachers that founded the club in 1879 (the recent 1880 argument is a misuse of the evidence by the way). These colours are supposed to represent Oxford and Cambridge blue and link back to the subject of education. The argument being put forward on this thread and elsewhere about rebranding and moving us forward as a corporate entity is an interesting one. Looking to the future and making us world juggernaut is all very well but SAFC originated before Dell and his mates turned up. This view is especially notable in light of the sentiment that Stewart Donald gave us our club back, put heart back into it, after the days of Ellis Short's detachment. It would be great for the club to achieve its potential but it would be a great shame to forget where we came from. The biggest clubs don't lose sight of that. Let's hope the new owners have the savvy to recognise that.
I'll be honest mate, I don't really like you. You're just too good at putting forward a logical argument and getting me to doubt myself and change my mind. I was all for a black panther head but you're right ... ... damn it!
Lots of clubs have their club crest incorporating an image linked to their nickname; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_club_nicknames_in_the_United_Kingdom
Based on some of the reasons given there, any number of nicknames could be applied to the club. Some of those explanations are wrong or inaccurate by the way. I wouldn't be opposed to a black cat forming the basis of a redesigned badge but I think it would be quite hard to represent in a way that had an impact. The idea of 'pumping it up' from a normal moggy to a panther seems a bit forced and the image on the outside of the ground is a bit cartoon-like to be taken seriously.
Hmm... I recall a boys comic called the Valiant... they had a football strip called Raven on the Wing, a gypsy lad linked to a wise woman.. who had I believe a black cat. If we can find a wise woman with a black cat, perhaps we can lift the 'curse' Although Gooch as Raven... more Watmore who needs a curse lifted As for the badge... a panther is a good image, but I am not sure.. as it seems black cats were cannon at the end of a pier. The region was built on ships and mining... that the history...the future..call centres...
As mentioned previously Club Badges didn't exist till relatively recently except for special occasions. For example our 1937 badge was rather like the old Coat of Arms on Wearmouth Bridge. Then 'Marketing' became the thing. Fans started to buy Club Shirts. SAFC's first tentative steps came in 1973/1975 strip when a 'SAFC' appeared over the left side. However there was nothing stopping anyone making a copy so SAFC followed the example of other Clubs and had a badge designed and registered as a trademark. This was the 'ship' badge. On the move to The SSoL we got our current badge. So The Club Badge has only ever been a marketing tool, although as fans we have become attached to it to some degree. But if I could learn to accept the move away from Roker Park, I'm not going to get my underwear in a tangle about the badge. (I'd like it if the Murray Gates stayed the way they are though).
I think how you see the badge and whether or not you want it changed relates to a wider issue about what you want for the club as a whole. Take this scenario: The takeover goes through, the new owner pump millions, if not billions, into the club. They rebrand us, and we become like Man City, PSG, Juventus, cosmopolitan and elite. We sign world superstars and win countless trophies. Would I like that? Yes, it would be amazing to see the club win something and it would increase the profile of the city. Would that make me proud? To an extent, but less so if the character and connection to the city and the fans was eroded. Would that be my achievement or the achievement of the fans? No, it would be that of the players, some rich blokes, and some marketing bods. What would make me proud? A club that was at the heart of the community, that was a true focal point for the city, that the fans could be part of and truly proud of. Something that Stewart Donald has tried to achieve. Let's not forget, when football clubs were established in the late 1800s they were just that, clubs, for people to join and be part of, not the commercial entities they are now. It is possible for that still to be the case- I urge anyone who wants to be part of something like that to look at the example of St Pauli in Hamburg. As part of that connection to the community, let's look at the badge and the shirt. The shirt, and the badge that adorns it, is the most visible and recognisable aspect of the club. They are also expensive items for fans to buy. For both of those reasons, the shirt and the badge should mean something to the fans, to connect them to the club, the city to the club, and the club to the city and the fans. I don't want a faceless, corporate identity even if that brings success on the pitch. I want a club that really means something to the city, the wider area and the fans and there to be a real connection, not just to be a customer.
I mentioned Juve rebadging on the other thread. Why they did, was had their own font designed and just went with a simple J, saying it was instantly recognisable for branding and marketing of the club. So, a similar thing simply with the letters SAFC maybe? Before my time, but I’m sure this is what we had for the ‘73 cup final.
